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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 13, 2014 - 07:53am PT
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All ST needs is a disclaimer-CAREFUL WHERE YOU STEP!
So Typical of this forum. But then this is the INTURDNET.
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10b4me
climber
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Dec 13, 2014 - 08:39am PT
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It's a sad day when Crimpergirl hasn't posted in so long that she forgets her password :-).
Seriously though, it seems to me that when you had climbers(Kate, Melissa, Mike Ousley, I.e.)who were posting climbing content decide the site is no longer climbing oriented, the decline started.
In regards to political, and religious threads, they should have been deleted by RJ, asap.
People talk about the "campfire". Most climbing campfires that I have set around, well. . . . .the topic has been climbing.
I have long been in favor of a forum subdivided into on, and off topic threads.
Just my .02
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 13, 2014 - 08:43am PT
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AFter watching this thread evolve, a couple of things stand out as comment-worthy.
First, there have been a lot of complaints about how so many valuable contributors have been driven away by the direction the forum has taken. On this, I call bullsh#t. From the day after this forum launched, there have been departures. Go back and pick whatever Golden Age Of Supertopo you like, and there'll be some climbing hero who decided not to stick around. Do you really think that by magically getting rid of everything you don't like, you could bring all your heroes back?
Sure, plenty of folks, and not just your heroes, have participated for a while, then left. Some have left in a huff, some have left in disgust, and some have left on the toe of Chris Mac's boot.
But for every one who has left, at least one new and equally valuable contributor has joined. Change is good. And not only good, it's necessary to keep the forum from death by stagnation.
And second, the following post from Mighty Hiker (upthread) epitomizes a real problem. He said:
If all the conspiracy theory, extreme right wing, and global warming denier type posters and threads disappeared, no one would miss them.
Conveniently ignoring the fact that his own non-stop spew of extreme left wing posting was just as annoying to many people as their extreme right wing posting was to him.
That attitude -- only posts and threads reflecting MY view of life should be allowed -- is just totalitarianism on an internet forum scale. I don't like threads turning into insult fests, but I'd far rather have a few insult fests than see Supertopo turn into an endless stream of sanctimonious ball-cupping.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Dec 13, 2014 - 08:45am PT
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
Funny thing is, from all reports, Rick is actually a really nice guy. He just plays an ASSHOLE here on the internet...
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 13, 2014 - 08:45am PT
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What I would like to know is WHY is it so important to be viewed or perceived as an ASSHOLE???...
Locker,
Some of these azzholes, if they are good mentors will achieve the coveted designation of "Guardian A-hole". I know one, George Hadland.
Every time a horn is honked in incessant anger, an a-hole gets their wings.
P.S. Locker, it is a wonderful life!
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 13, 2014 - 08:49am PT
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^^^^^^ One of the best posts in the thread by Ghost ^^^^^^
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Dec 13, 2014 - 09:02am PT
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^^^
Indeed. Great post, Mr. Ghost.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 13, 2014 - 09:25am PT
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^^^^^^ One of the best posts in the thread by Ghost ^^^^^^
^^^
Indeed. Great post, Mr. Ghost.
Hey! What part of "No Ball Cupping" don't you guys understand?
Are you ill today Werner? What's wrong with you and El Cap? C'mon, dudes, show some balls. Disagree with me. Insult me. Turn this into a normal ST thread.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
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Dec 13, 2014 - 09:35am PT
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Haha. No such luck, Ghostly One. Folk agree or not at their own whim. As for those that have left, several lurk, as if to say that they would return if the forum returned to its own or closer to its original course. We'll see what we see, I suppose.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 13, 2014 - 09:40am PT
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Ghost, you phony equanimous hoser wetback, quit coming it the voice of reason!
If we wanted to reason we'd be down at the local Church of Scientology, or maybe the
West Palm Beach Tim Hortons with the rest of yer ilk.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 13, 2014 - 10:03am PT
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perhaps a better title for this thread would be "has supertopo jumped the shark?"
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 13, 2014 - 10:05am PT
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"Hey! What part of "No Ball Cupping" don't you guys understand?"
"I'll cup your balls ghost!"
Glad to see you guys have taken over Anita's bailiwick. She was told recently she needed to get a new schtick, which was devastating to her. ;)
Cup on, dudes!
"First, there have been a lot of complaints about how so many valuable contributors have been driven away by the direction the forum has taken. On this, I call bullsh#t. From the day after this forum launched, there have been departures. Go back and pick whatever Golden Age Of Supertopo you like, and there'll be some climbing hero who decided not to stick around. Do you really think that by magically getting rid of everything you don't like, you could bring all your heroes back?"
The forum hasn't changed directions at all - from the very beginning, it has been mostly a free for all. Back at inception, users weren't even required to provide an email address, they just posted. People changed their user names randomly and frequently. So it's always been unmoderated.
And McTopo hasn't jumped the shark. It's pretty much the same shitshow it's always been.
The question is - if the forum becomes more moderated, will it bring back people who were originally attracted by the climbing content, but driven away by the lack of moderation? I would like to think so. I would sure like to see more climbing content, from real climbers with real identities.
Chris - please split up the forum - "climbing stuff" and "not climbing stuff"
Cheers,
Pete Zabrok
Ontario, Canada
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Dec 13, 2014 - 10:43am PT
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Were I thirty years old and enraptured with climbing I might find the UKClimbing forum design attractive. But now I am an old man and cringe at what seems to be severe regimentation on that site. ST on the other hand seems vibrant and appealing, even with the nastiness that crops up from time to time. There is something about "climbing content" that seems technical and dry and devoid of humor. Whereas some of the OT threads show great wit and are more appealing than another discussion on sport climbing vs traditional climbing, or where it is proper to place a single bolt on a climb that has been done heroically with no bolts. So I would prefer that no queuing be attempted that would relegate a humorous dialogue on the nature of mind to the second or third page, replaced on page one by yet another description of an El Cap repeat.
But pay no attention to the old man behind the curtain.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 13, 2014 - 10:50am PT
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Don't pay attention to the old man behind the curtain...? But what if he's doing one fingered pull ups or some other bannable stunt...?
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 13, 2014 - 11:12am PT
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by yet another description of an El Cap repeat
Even speed records are only as good as the characters putting them up.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Dec 13, 2014 - 11:35am PT
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I tried to post to this thread yesterday but deleted my post because it was reactionary.
Trying to think about it rationally I have Two beefs:
1.
Part of The problem for me is that it's hard to have any respect for an anonymous avatar that is highly opinionated & has no reason to be accountable for what they say.
They also have no reason to show or try and earn/share respect with other users.
There is a lot of posts that come from these types these days.
I'm having a hard time convincing myself it's not a massive energy sink associating myself with these types in any way, especially a website that I thought I was going to for great climbing content. Which can often feel like picking flyshit out of pepper, then watching it fall back in the shaker.
There is also a lot of anonymous avatars here who do have human qualities & share great content that are a valuable assett to this forum, I also understand why ppl would want to stay anonymous for their various reasons.
But when ppl are anonymous because they are a coward who doesn't want to stand behind their words It makes it really hard to even think of these users as real people, let alone fellow climbers. This is not possible at a real campfire. It cracks me up to see these types post opinions to this thread like anyone cares about their superficial, shallow contributions that build up and cause this collective detriment here. They make me not want to visit this site and have me almost convinced that it is not worth it putting time and energy into creating new climbing threads or TRs.
2.
A separate column /tab for climbing would actually encourage more posting and discussion on OT threads IMO, I know that I would post to them more if I knew I wasn't ruining climbing content by doing so.
I'd also be more psyched on posting and sharing new climbing content knowing it was not going to get sucked into a black hole.
Do whatever you want Chris, or just keep trolling and acting like you care and don't give a f*#k at the same time. It's really making a difference, for better or worse is the question.
Oh look, it stopped raining.
Edit-
There is a large group of ppl here who do what they can to keep the climbing content going, they put a lot of time and effort into it. I really appreciate it and try to keep climbing threads around, but it's easy for that stuff to waste away when compared to some news link someone thought was worth starting a thread over that took zero thought and time, that will subsequently garner 1000+ posts. That's a lot of traffic compared to the average TR that someone took hours/days/weeks/months of their life to dream/climb/travel/share with us which sees anywhere from 3-50 posts. Climbing content does not stand a chance to fully develop as a majority here as long as there are daily hot topic news threads that will always flare up and cause controversy. No chance.
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10b4me
climber
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Dec 13, 2014 - 11:43am PT
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I agree with Crimpie and 10b4me. Miss your posts, you two.
thanks, Sully.
I've mentioned several times in the past the decline of ST. I, along with several others(and you know who you are) were here in the beginning. What attracted me, and I thought the others was a new site where there was climbing content.
Now it seems that because of the political, and religious threads, non climbers searching for those topics would plug those words into search engines, and lo and behold they came to ST. They then had a place espouse their views without much backlash, or so they thought.
You see, on the political, and religious forums where they posted before, more than likely they had their ass handed to them. So they left with their tails between their legs, but then found ST.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Dec 13, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
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I posted regularly to ST from about 2006 - 12, and like to think I contributed something to this wacky community. I gradually phased out posting, particularly to non-climbing threads, and essentially stopped two years ago. For several reasons:
 Other priorities, such as work, family, climbing and exercise, and projects.
Decreasing lack of interest, particularly as friends drifted away.
Other and more constructive ways to interact with those I want to interact with.
The dozen or so trolls, extremists, and whackjobs, who substantially debase the forum.
Offensive behaviour by some posters toward me personally, here and elsewhere.
Then there was the notorious "boobs" thread, which although it began as a witty (and accurate) take on misogynist behaviour here (by a female), soon degenerated into pornography, and eventually kiddie porn. That is, something that is loathsome, (probably) criminal, and contrary to forum policy - even if such foulness can readily be found elsewhere on the internet. That was compounded by the failure of the forum's owners to promptly address the problem. I did not want to be associated in any way with a forum that permits such, even if inadvertently.
As for ghost's joke about my being a left-winger... Well, maybe by the extreme standards of a few in the USA. By Canadian standards I'm a freethinking centrist - moderately to the left in terms of social and environmental policy, moderately to the right in terms of fiscal responsibility. As I in any case chose some time ago to stop wasting time interacting with conspiracy theorists, gun nuts, creationists, global warming deniers, far right wingers, and other loonies and whackjobs, it's long since moot. I agree that there are many reasonable conservatives here - John E, for example - and we interact constructively both online and in person, which speaks for itself.
There are undoubtedly inappropriate threads on ST. The real problem is inappropriate posts, and posters. Some simply can't play nice, and either need a time out, or to be suspended or banned. I continue to like the idea of limiting the number of posts/poster/day. That is, original posts - even if a post is later deleted, it should count toward the total. And simply ejecting those who post only nonsense, pour encourager les autres as Napoleon said, has its merits. They have every right to free speech - somewhere else.
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Brian
climber
California
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Dec 13, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
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I'd love to see any and all of the following:
1. Require posting under real names, which I wager would immediately eliminate or at least curtail 90+% of the truly offensive and intentionally inflammatory stuff.
2. Some sort of division of forum into climbing and OT threads, whether that is through a tab or a filter.
3. Moderating that bans folks who are here only to troll. Not folks who disagree with me. Not folks who occasionally post OT stuff. Just folks who are here only to be an as#@&%e, generally in a way they would never be in a face-to-face encounter (hence #1 above). I am fully aware that this raises the insoluble issue of "who is an as#@&%e?" However, I, for one, am 100% fully willing to run the risk of moderation if we can eliminate the dozen or so worst offenders.
So many folks use the silly and inappropriate "campfire" metaphor for what happens here. But while it is true we talk about more than climbing around actual campfire, and that's great, it is also true that a substantial portion of what clogs up the forum on Supertopo would never happen at a real campfire because:
(a) I'm guessing that most of the as#@&%es on the forum are not really such as#@&%es in person.
(b) If such an as#@&%e did show up at a campfire, lots of us would simply ask the guy to leave.
And, finally, (c) at least some of the asinine behavior here would actually lead to fisticuffs if it happened around a real campfire.
Still, in the end, my opinion is one that Chris should not weigh too heavily in terms of effect, because I've gone from looking at Supertopo fairly regularly to almost never looking at it. I've posted, what, 20 items in 2014? There are gems on this site to be sure, but they are increasingly embedded in a pile of manure. It's a bummer because there is some great content here, and some great people.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Dec 13, 2014 - 03:18pm PT
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If you can't be this
then try this.
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