Chouinard Gear Mystery Questions

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 161 - 180 of total 297 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2015 - 08:10pm PT

1968 and 1971 Alpine hammer differences

A few weeks ago I was looking at the array of Chouinard Hammers being sold on ebay and suddenly a “Buy it now” listing popped up. A Chouinard Alpine hammer which looked slightly different than the usual ones I have come across. The first thing I noticed is the head, which looks rectangular from the side view. I have been searching for a true 1968 Alpine hammer for a long time, and I believe I found it. I admit paying $140 hurts the wallet a bit, but the item being in A+ mint condition and almost 50 years should retain it’s value. For what I have found is that most people have a 1971 Alpine. Google images also shows 99% of hammers with this shape head look like 1971 version.

During 1968 the hammer sling screws were switching over from flat head style to phillips. So the hammer may have a 1968 Alpine head with phillips screw or possibly may have a longer 11 3/4 handle.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2015 - 09:40pm PT

This photo is a few pitons sold in a big lot of pitons on ebay a few weeks ago. I kept the photo because the center piton looks odd to me. Maybe this piton is the 1960 steel 2" piton that we have been looking for? However it looks like, but I am not 100% sure, that is has a "USA" stamp with the "C" , which the 1960 steel bongs did not have. Hard to tell if the piton scratches make it look like a "USA" stamp, otherwise this may be a 2" bong that snuck out of the shop without lightning holes sometime mid 1960s.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Feb 28, 2015 - 11:46am PT

Marty- You are looking at sawed off angles. Use the unmodified 5/8" angle for scale. The 1 1/2" angle has USA in the stamp by my eye.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2015 - 06:55am PT

Steve, I understand that the pitons are sawed off. What caught my eye is how much material there is under the rivet showing that the piton eye is not centered. Looking at the photo below you can see how my 1 1/2 has the hole in the center, not more toward the right.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 2, 2015 - 11:32am PT

You are comparing the piton in question to a much older one when looking at the hole position and spacing so I don't think you have a 2" angle in the auction listing.

I bet the hole diameter is consistent though as a basis of comparison.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2015 - 08:03pm PT

So the search for the 1960 2" Chouinard Steel Bong continues!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 3, 2015 - 11:42am PT

Do you have the catalog citation or listing for the 2" without lightening holes?

I just might have one in storage!

Jeff Thomas

Trad climber

Milwaukie, Oregon

Mar 5, 2015 - 07:06pm PT

Marty;

Per the 1968 Chouinard Alpine Hammer several posts back see the photo below for the Mazama Museum example.

Unfortunately I cannot tell you when the original owner purchased the hammer.

The similarities between your hammer and the Mazama hammer are the dimension around the point where the handle meets the head and the rivet connecting the tangs to the handle.

The picks are slightly different and the Mazama hammer has a Phillips screw.

Other similarities or differences are difficult to gauge without putting the two together.

Mar'

Trad climber

Fanta Se

Mar 12, 2015 - 03:47pm PT

I bought my early-series alpine hammer used while living in Leavenworth, WA in 1975.

It came with the '68 head's pick-shape+length and the handle's rectangular section below the head is tapered like a '68, but the anvil is oval and the lanyard screw is philips.

Also, the length of the handle is 11-5/8". I'm calling it a '69 or '70— haha!!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 23, 2015 - 11:18pm PT

Steve, I don't have any mfg information on what sizes of steel Bongs were available in 1960. The wordage on the Firsts list only states "Alloy Sheet Steel Bong" but so far three different sizes have surfaced. It would be awesome if you have a 2" steel bong to show (no lightening holes, no "USA"). Also not shown yet on the thread is a 2" 1961 Aluminum bong (no lightening holes, no "USA"). The 2" I show is actuality a Chouinard 2 1/4 prototype from Don Lauria.

I assume that Chouinard had sold many 2" aluminum bongs in the early 1960s, but I am surprised on how hard they are to find. Even the milk crate of bongs I got from Jim Bridwell contained no 2" size. Maybe his climbing partner had the 2" bongs, who knows.

Jeff, Great photo! Looks like a Christmas gift set!

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2015 - 03:50pm PT

I was digging through a box of old catalogs that Scott Newell recently sent me, and it included a few more gems to add to this thread.

Farley

Mountain climber

Portland, Oregon

May 18, 2015 - 08:29pm PT

As requested by Marty, see photo showing both aluminum and steel bongs without "lightening" holes. Stamped Chouinard without USA, dating from 1960 or 1961. Steve Roper collection.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2015 - 12:46pm PT

Farley - super cool! The left Bong in the photo is a steel 2" Bong with no lightening holes first created in 1960. So this thread now shows all four steel bong sizes which lead to the four sizes of aluminum Bongs. Originally it was unknown to how many sizes of Bongs Chouinard created. The Bong has Chouinard diamond "C" stamp but no "USA." The Bong right in the photo is a Chouinard 1961 aluminum 2 1/2 Bong Bong.

So the steel bongs are covered but the thread is still missing a photo of a aluminum 2" Bong, no lightening holes, "C" diamond but no "USA"

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 30, 2015 - 03:04pm PT

Did he supply measurements to confirm that? The principal eye diameter is uniformly 3/4" so those look to be a 2 1/2" and 3" to me. I wrote him to let him know that you were after a single hole 2" steel bong specifically.

The bottom piton is stamped YC and I liberated it from a route on Haystack in the Winds. It is a match for the 1 1/2" angle at the top and I am not aware that he ever sold this size commercially.

The fabrication is pretty rough so this may have been one of Yvon's first attempts at saving weight by going with aluminum. The material is thinner than anything Yvon actually sold that I have ever seen.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2015 - 11:13am PT

Steve, he says he measured the bongs but they do look a little bigger than his measurement. The aluminum bong looks like a 3"

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 31, 2015 - 11:31am PT

Pretty sure that they are as I described them.

I don't have a 2" single hole aluminum bong in my collection either.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2015 - 09:56am PT

Farleys 2" steel left and Martys 2 1/2 and 2 1/4" aluminum bongs, center and right.
I believe Farley has a 2 1/2" steel showing, not a 2"

So the search for a 2" steel or aluminum Bong continues.
Steve you are the man that can unlock this puzzle. In your travels please locate these 2" bongs!