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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Nov 17, 2014 - 08:42pm PT
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It's a good thing nobody cares what aid climbers do nowadays
or this could turn into a real kerfuffle.
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l-b-1
climber
new york
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Nov 18, 2014 - 01:14am PT
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There are NO bathook hole ladders on HtH.
Who said there are? Pete go and climb the route, instead of imitating the grossman...
The first pitch is scary on natural hooks.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
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Nov 18, 2014 - 04:15am PT
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Pete made later statements that I didn't know about and weren't reflected in my earlier post (or even his more recent post) so looks like pete has known about the natural hooking for long enough to forget about it. what's that they say about old dads, they forget more than we have time to learn? Accusing him of acting like Grossman is just low.
From the thread about which routes haven't had second ascents back in 2008...
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Jun 26, 2008 - 12:32am PT
Highway to Hell - which I thought was an A0 bathook ladder, but looks upon closer inspection to have some scary-ass natural hooking.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=621685&msg=621723#msg621723
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Nov 18, 2014 - 05:36am PT
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I respect all kinds of climbing
it is about getting after it
getting it done
bi error sucks
Go ahead and do what ever you want
It is a free world,
If the -ickwad schmegma
Had his way it would not be
He would have been beheaded
As an Interloping infidel
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 18, 2014 - 07:45am PT
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but not for his opinionated political views, which tend toward generalising and racism.
And there's the rub for me Deuce4. After that, no respect, don't care what his climbs are like. Especially if he's making them artificially dangerous, sandbagging and booby trapping others, and then blowing smoke up his own overinflated ass.
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AndrewC
climber
Oakland California
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Nov 18, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
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I'm not on supertopo much, but I saw this thread about Jim Beyer and I have to comment. That guy is hard core and changed my perspective on hard climbing forever. I met him in curry village after he got down from Martyr's Brigade about 12 years ago. I did a lot of hard aid climbing back then. I asked him about the route. He told me about the ice axe on the extension pole and other hard core stuff.
Then he said something that has forever changed the way I understand climbing. He said that he was having a good time climbing super hard pitches that were turning out to be great A4 or A5 with long stretches of sketchy hooks and beaks, but then a little crack would open up for a bomber alien placement, and he was pissed because now he had to down-rate the pitch to A3. "Damn aliens, they ruin hard aid climbing. They make everything so easy."
I realized that he truly wanted it to be really difficult. He climbed because it was hard. Most of us are on climbs just praying for the next hold to be a jug, or the next placement to be a bomber cam so we can be solid. Jim was the other way around. He climbed because he wanted it to be hard, and wanted the challenge and the danger. He wanted to be at his limit. He was disappointed when it was easy. He was there to push himself to his limits for real. Not like we do. But to really push them.
Instead of being relieved when he got a bomber placement, he was disappointed. Think about that for a minute.
I did the Sea of Dreams that same trip to Yosemite, and I was with a hard core alpinist that I was teaching how to aid climb. I was cleaning a pitch that he had lead, and there was a bomber lost arrow splitter crack that had no gear in it at all. I asked him why he had not placed gear. He had decided it was too easy, so he went hooking on edges out to the side just to make it harder and to see if he could do it. He wanted it to be hard. He turned an easy A3 pitch into A5 just for the hell of it. He had the same attitude as Beyer, which is why the Sea of Dreams was his second aid climb and it wasn't even hard enough for him.
After that talk with Jim Beyer I started looking forward to hard climbing rather than dreading it. A5 became awesome instead of dreadful. It changed everything for me for both free and aid climbing. I climb so much harder when I have that attitude, and I have a more fulfilling experience. Even when I am out of shape,flailing on easy free climbs, I can have the same fulfilling experience because as long as I'm pushing my current physical or mental limit, it doesn't matter if it is 5.11 or 5.13. I have come to realize that this is the unifying theme of climbing.
He also likes to keep people honest that repeat his routes. He told me he sometimes puts tape over the clipping loop on any fixed gear he leaves so that it cannot be stick clipped. That's legit.
Beyer is a hardman that cannot be understood unless one has climbed significant amounts of true A5, including first ascents. However, we can all learn from his attitude about embracing difficulty and fear.
His attitude toward hard climbing explains a lot of the stuff he does I think. My guess is that he does new routes and climbs alone and uses different styles than the rest of us because that is the only way he can actually climb as hard as he is able to climb, and to get as scared as he wants to. He is so far beyond all of us in technical skill that repeating routes is probably just not challenging. He climbs how he wants to, and that should be respected. Climbing is anarchy. That's the whole point.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 18, 2014 - 02:05pm PT
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don't care what his climbs are like. Especially if he's making them artificially dangerous, sandbagging and booby trapping others, and then blowing smoke up his own overinflated ass.
Bingo.
AndrewC sounds like hero worship eclipses your judgement, or do you also have hate for my people.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 18, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
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TV says
"And before you remind me of my so regrettably pedestrian routes, you should bear in mind that I've put in time on the sharp end of serious aid climbs BITD, so I have walked the talk my friend."
BITD? Beyer is still doing it
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Nov 18, 2014 - 02:27pm PT
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That's legit.
Not.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 18, 2014 - 02:28pm PT
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Whatever John and Andrew.. couldnt care less. The guy is not only racist he is publicly promoting racism. He can f*#k off. Now climbing as a sport has to make appologies for his FA decades from now.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 18, 2014 - 02:31pm PT
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On I forgot this is a political forum pretending to be a climbing forum
Actually this really is another public butchering of someone's reputation and character behind their back. You guys should be proud!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 18, 2014 - 02:44pm PT
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Not really the topo is on Mountain trip. His own words don't have any defense. I'm stating this publicly not behind his back.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 18, 2014 - 03:17pm PT
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Yeah through a keyboard while using a fake name you're slinging insults at a guy who doesn't know it's happening. You're from wasilla right?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 18, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
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Finding my name is 3 clicks away. Hmm maybe Beyer is the one hiding? More likely he doesn't give a sh#t. Or he's maybe enjoying the attention..Maybe he is out climbing
Or maybe he is just dumb and thought he was making a valid point. I'd be willing to bet the guy can be quite cool and decent at times. Hell probably most of the time. I'd imagine thats true for even many of the worst people. Too bad, Condoning and publically promoting anti-semitism just once ruins any public legacy. Climbing is not even relevant to the conversation on a scale of things important in the world.
One thing for sure his route topo is a sad thing to see.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 18, 2014 - 03:47pm PT
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"Climbing is not even relevant"? This is (was) a climbing forum. You sure he's the dummy?
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Nov 18, 2014 - 03:53pm PT
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He's put up some good climbs on Wall Street in Moab
Astrolad
Wide eyed deer
And Fantom Sprint is the most natural line in the fishers. He must have been bored silly on that one.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 18, 2014 - 03:57pm PT
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I'm not sue if Jim Beyer is busy but people on the forum definetly are....carry on!
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AndrewC
climber
Oakland California
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Nov 18, 2014 - 04:42pm PT
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Ron,
I don't have any heroes. I've climbed long enough to know better.
Beyer's attitude toward hard climbing is inspiring to me, that's all. I think his attitude gets right to the heart of climbing. I think he is largely misunderstood because he is a loner who climbs harder than anyone else in a style that few can appreciate for what it really is.
His attitude explains a lot of why he does what he does. I think we should try appreciate it and respect it for what it is--just a guy out there spending time alone being scared in dangerous situations.
Most of the negative comments against Beyer come from people who cannot possibly understand him or what he does because they have never climbed a significant amount truly hard aid, or done big wall first ascents, or known him personally. Or the negative comments are based on politics. Either way, it's a joke.
I posted to this thread because I had an interesting experience talking to Jim Beyer and I came away from that conversation realizing that the way he sees climbing is very unique, and very intense. That guy is hard core. He is in a league all his own.
So what if we don't agree with his style or personality? He is out there alone, climbing dangerous stuff, doing what he wants. I think it is impressive that he seeks out the pressure of constant dangerous hard aid for days and days up there alone. Anyone who has been strung out in the middle of a real A5 hooking pitch and felt the pressure of realizing how absolutely trapped you are, you know what I'm talking about. Someone who gets scared on an A3 trade route is unlikely to fully understand what Beyer does or why he is so hard core.
But regardless of all that, everyone can benefit from seeing a climber with the attitude that he climbs because it's hard. This is a difficult concept to communicate, but Beyer's comment about being disappointed when he got a bomber placement is significant. It left me with the impression that he isn't up on El Cap just to be in the mountains, or to have fun, or to post pictures, or for the glory of an FA. He is there to have an intense experience and stretch himself mentally as much as physically possible.
I think that's awesome.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Nov 18, 2014 - 05:13pm PT
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he is a loner who climbs harder than anyone else I believe this is what Ron was getting at, when he mentioned "hero worship". (I got the same impression).
It would be hard to prove "he climbs harder than anyone else".
He rates stuff hard, but I'm not sure if he is just joking.
When his "A6" route Intifada was repeated, there was some genuine hard climbing,
but not harder than other climbs. Plus some contrived runouts.
http://www.jensenconsultations.com/climbing/intifada/intifada.html
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SuperTopo on the Web
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we could place bolts every 10 feet on a slab pitch, but we usually don't.
Let us know!