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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:52pm PT
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And it was God, guns and guts that made the West great. Farmers came first, cattle only later Jan, I'm surprised you're the only one who caught my deliberately leaving out the farmers and sheep ranchers.
All that's left now is God, Guns and Cattle.
And the environmental desolation caused by overgrazing. It's rather ironic that the cattlemen blamed the sheep for denuding the landscape, eating all the good feed and pissing in the creeks and ponds. Now there are only cattle (with a few high mountain sheep exceptions) has the landscape recovered?
NOPE.
Have you ever hiked or camped in an area where range cattle graze? I have, many times. It's not very pretty, especially near water. Have you compared it to land that has been subsequently fenced off to keep the cattle out? There has been some very good work done on the problem of reclaiming cattle land by the Southwest Research Institute in Albuquerque.
You try running up a $300K tax bill and see if you get to keep your house, car, cattle, etc. You're even likely to lose your wife/husband. Try not paying your landlord the rent.
And what about all the Republitards who're bitching about uncollected taxes? Inefficient Gummint Burrocracy they call it.
I say give all the gun-totin' protesters 2 hours to get outta Dodge with their weapons and then have the Army Engineers over to build a fence around Bundy, his pals AND his cattle. Take down the fence when the bill has been paid AND the cattle have all been sent to the abattoir.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:53pm PT
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Looks like the desert lost, fuuuck he was just some redneck Moron.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:56pm PT
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Dingy Harry Reid and his cronies lost.
Not the desert.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:59pm PT
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Base, as he often is, is wrong, there are other producing oil fields past and present in the state and virtually the whole state is staked by mega mining companies.
Where are these fields, Rick?
Perhaps you don't remember that I have access to data on every well drilled in the U.S. since about 1930. I download it in a matter of minutes and import it into my work software. It is pretty pricey.
Nevada is mainly a hard rock mining province, true, but I never said otherwise. I said that it isn't very interesting from a petroleum point of view. I've discussed it with other geologists, and have been aware of Railroad Valley for decades.
Go ahead and try to refute me. I am pretty tolerant of different viewpoints, but I tired of you and The Chief long ago.
Again. This situation seems like an eery phantom of the Waco incident, in the fact that it brought some real nut cases out of the shadows. One of them was Tim McVeigh. He would fit in well with the videos I have seen of the "Patriot" gun movement.
My wife and toddler son were only 9 blocks from the Murrah building when McVeigh's bomb went off. I have no sympathy for these types.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:04pm PT
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What would rock climbers do?
Throw rocks ..... ?????
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:06pm PT
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The Fed LEO's were wise to pull back and let the domestic terrorists and other wacko's dance around and howl. That Bundy dude is in for some administrative/civil trouble come Monday morning. He's had.
Maybe I want to go camping out there with my family. Is Bundy and Co. gonna try and kick me off with his band of armed skinhead thugs from Idaho in black flack jackets?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:09pm PT
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High Traverse, that's definitely an innovative solution.
What I would hope is that this will start a dialogue about the issues of land use in the West. As water becomes more and more scarce, there are bound to be more conflicts.
I think what outsiders fail to grasp however, which does now seem to be coming to light, is how angry the descendants of the pioneers who still have a hard struggle to survive, feel at outside interference from people who sacrifice nothing. When the folks in Los Vegas and LA give up their swimming pools and green grass, then the old time ranchers will be more sympathetic to arguments about the environment.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:10pm PT
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Thanks for your input BASE.
When I heard this was about petroleum I was skeptical. Hard rock minerals... sure. Hydrothermal... maybe. But enough petroleum in Nevada to justify this kind of land swoggle? Far more likely to be a crotchety old rancher who is pissed he can't freeload on public lands anymore... taking advantage of the small minded idiots willing to start a civil war at the drop of a hat.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:12pm PT
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The Bureau of Land Management, whose director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations. -
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
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What a crock. I watched the story unfold over the last two days. I watched the climax and end of the standoff via live feed for over three hours today. The BLM didn't end anything. They lost control of the standoff against a pile of unarmed civilians and having no legal right to even be there backed off because their armed threats to open fire on the crowd fell on deaf ears. Clark County sheriff had the only power to do anything, and he intervened at the end to avoid a slaughter and uphold the ranchers legal right to keep his cattle on the grazing land.
Almost a total media blackout. 8 Billion dollar contract to ENN not going to happen. Media will have to work very hard to cover this up. Many armed people got turned around while on their way to fix the BLM and their armed takeover attempt.
The biased information out there right now is far from what I watched live.
Burly Bob
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
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What a great load of unsupported sh#t there TGT. You never cease to disappoint.
Clark County sheriff had the only power to do anything, and he intervened at the end to avoid a slaughter and uphold the ranchers legal right to keep his cattle on the grazing land.
Sorry bud, but it ain't within the sheriff's jurisdiction to uphold grazing rights on BLM land. But don't let the truth get in the way of your opinion!
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:17pm PT
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Look deeper Mechrist, he is spot on by what I watched today. Documents are already available on line.
Burly Bob
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:18pm PT
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descendants of the pioneers who still have a hard struggle to survive
My Great-grandparents homesteaded legitimately, but lost in court against the railroad (how could an ordinary family win?) I think it's a lot more complicated. Did the Bundy family have a homestead?
If it's a federal reserve or federal land, all Americans are owed something by someone who profits off of that land.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:18pm PT
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Ain't so. I know from expurience. County sheriff don't do sh#t about illegal grazing. And they shur as sh#t don't enforce grazing rights on federal land that have been been struck down twice in court.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
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how angry the descendants of the pioneers who still have a hard struggle to survive, feel at outside interference from people who sacrifice nothing Lovely romantic notion of the West. Having lived out here most of my life, most of it in rural areas, I know the vast majority of ranchers are like the rest of us. Work hard, pay their taxes, pay their bills, obey the law, complain at the pub and vote in elections.
When they get really worked up they write letters to the newspaper, perhaps even go to the county commission meeting (I've done that a couple of times) or write their Senator/Congressman (I've done that many times) or go to their legislator's town hall meeting (been there and done that too).
Bundy is just a tax dodging anti-democratic nutcase. He's had his day in court, had about 15 years to put it right and to exercise his freedom of speech.
He is a criminal masquerading as a Freedom Hero. I wouldn't be surprised if Clark County or the Justice Dept have put out a warrant for his arrest.
Do you feel safer now that the "militia" wackos have stared down the Law?
I don't THINK so.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:30pm PT
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Just as a matter of fact and for the record; the Sheriff of any County is THE senior LEO present, and the Feds KNOW that. He could arrest them at the drop of a hat. When the Sheriff (not a Deputy) showed up, the game was over. If the Sheriff tells them to leave, they leave.
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:31pm PT
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Sheriff has the only power of arrest in this case. He has all the power over the BLM if their actions are iillegal and in his jurisdiction.
You may want to take a minute and do some sniffing around.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:37pm PT
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If Mr. Bundy has the correct advice, he will seek redress in the United States Court of claims, and not in District Court.
There's a very good book on this very topic: "Storm over Rangelands," written by Wayne Hage, who had a similar case involving his grazing and water rights on homesteaded land. He won his case in the Court of Claims, but would have lost in District Court. Later on, his wife was Helen Cheneweth, the U.S. Congresswoman from Idaho. He had excellent advice on what to do.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:41pm PT
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Burley Bob-
The Sheriff can also issue an order to "cease and desist" any activity that could prove injurious to a resident of his county. I happen to know my present Sheriff very well, and I've been advised of that fact by THE MAN.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:43pm PT
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Bruce-
Since all we have is second and third hand information, we don't know what advice he's had.
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