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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Wild pigs don't 'tear up' anything.
Actually, they do tear stuff up.
About 20 years ago I worked for the National Biological Survey on the slopes of Mauna Kea on the big island of Hawaii. I was a field tech setting up mist nets, catching and releasing birds after tagging them, etc. The whole point was to get some science-based understanding and policy decisions to stop the native birds from going extinct. It turns out the culprit was a combination of things:
1) Non-native birds brought avian malaria. Native birds had almost 100% mortality rate when they catch it
2) Mosquitoes are the transmission vector, but they were not adjusted to the higher altitudes on the island. Every year the mosquito range expanded higher up the mountain into colder regions.
3) Polynesians brought pigs to the islands thousands of years ago. These pigs bred with European boars introduced in the 1800s, and these now wild pigs love to dig up Hapu'u fern trees and leave this cesspool in it's place where mosquitoes love to breed. It enables the mosquitoes to more easily adjust to the higher altitudes because there are few other places where water pools long enough to let the mosquito lifecycle continue.
So now-wild pigs, which exist there only because of human introduction, are a direct part of causing the extinction of native Hawaiin birds. Of course, birds are also affected by introduced predators like rats, mongooses (introduced in an attempt to stop the rats!), feral cats, etc.
The funny thing is the wildlife/conservation folks wanted to kill off the pigs, and the hunters wanted to keep them around for sport! The hunters claimed the ancestral customs and lifestyle as the basis for blocking the removal of pigs. I haven't kept up with it to see how it resolved, but it looks like the restricted access forests where we used to work are now opened up as some sort of park.
Amazing birds in that place:
I'iwi, apapane, akepa, akiapola'au, common amakihi, elepaio, oma'o, 'alala
Just found out the 'alala is now extinct in the wild. There were 7 known in the wild when I worked there. When the polynesians came to the islands, about 50% of the bird species went extinct. They would kill tens of thousands of birds and just pluck the brightest couple of feathers in the chest to use for the bright red or bright yellow cape to adorn the king. Then when europeans came with various introduced animals and diseases, there was another mass extinction... maybe 98% of the bird species?
This was a pretty big digression, but the original point was yes, pigs do tear stuff up. And so do humans.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Quote from previous page:
"The natives hunted the buffalo for 13,000 yrs and then our relatives came and killed them off for "sport" in short order . I quess that is why they have to have game wardens. Now you can only have a little bit of fun and only kill a few!"
In my studies I learned that it was a government program to kill off the buffalo because they knew buffalo were essential to the way of life for the Plains Indians. I believe it was the famous Indian murderer Kit Carson who came up with this idea.
I know there are many anti-gun / anti-hunt fanatics on this forum. Hopefully some of you anti-gun nuts will realize that it is responsible hunters who follow the laws and regulations, who pump hundreds of millions of dollars annually in to the economy, any who pay for a large portion of wildlife conservation.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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I spent long days chasing bird calls during that Hawaii job, but the reward for me was a binocular sighting and being able to write down the color of the bands on its legs, or none if there was no band. The time spent chasing it down was very nice, sort of like climbing, to have a goal driving your interaction with nature to give it an extra layer of meaning or purpose (albeit one we invent for ourselves).
Shooting the prey at the end would not be cool just for the sake of completion or any sort of "rush" from killing. But I would definitely go hunting for the sake of getting myself food. I think that process leads to a greater respect for the lost life that is the cost of me enjoying meat.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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NutAgain, great point.
All of my friends who have been lifelong sportsmen (i.e. hunters / fisherman) have tremendous respect for the animals they harvest. And that respect continues to grown and build (for me anyway) each time I open the freezer for an elk steak. It is a wonderful gift we have the opportunity in this great country to manage and harvest wildlife for sustenance. And we have millions of responsible sportsmen to thank for this privilege.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Hope to not sound like Dingbat here, but seriously, why are they called "Sportsmen"? Blasting an unarmed animal...Sportsmen? Sportsmen? The Meh on my Mehmeter is rapidly changing I fear....
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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people obsess over the meat. hunting is about the entire experience from planning to eating. it is hard to understand unless you try it. Trying to sustain yourself by hunting in California would result in starvation unless you poach or eat lots of coots, i guess maybe with the exception of areas with lots of hogs.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Yes, it's all about the experience. A year(s) of planning and dreaming and physically scouting the areas. Learning about the animals, their habits, looking for sign (tracks / rubbings). On the few big game hunts I've been on in NAZ, folks take it fairly seriously. Spend some rounds sighting in your scope, investing in camo clothing, good binocs and all sorts of warm weather gear.
It is sort of like those rock climber folks, who make big dreams of climbing some huge formation or boulder, and plan and train and study before their objective. Achieving the summit is the goal, but the whole process is an important component of the experience. I've known some climbers to fail dozens of times on a single objective only to keep trying and trying.
And then on the hunt you still have to find the critters who aren't exactly dumb. Whatever animal it might be, you are in it's home, walking around, making all sorts of noise and stinky smells and most animals split out the first chance they get. The success rate for most big game hunts in NAZ, where elk are quite prolific, is something like 20-30%. In other words the overwhelming majority of men, women and kids who spent all this time and money and time off work, don't even score an animal. To put it another way, hunting (or fishing) is not as easy as most folks believe as a result many sportsmen come home empty handed.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Maybe that's why it's called "hunting", and not "killing".
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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As for hunting buffalo for 13,000 years, hmmm, .. maybe not so much.
First the indians burned down the great forests to produce the "Great Plains", then the population of buffalo began to climb, eventually to at least 65M, but the only way to kill them was to drive them off cliffs, rare in the Great Plains.
In truth it required the reappearance of the horse (1521), but then it took centuries more before the horse cultures of the Plains developed and acquired the ability to hunt buffalo.
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WBraun
climber
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Californians are very good hunters at the malls .......
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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I've never eaten any hunted game. No need these days although I've always wanted to go give it a shot. Har har. Not sure my spoiled by convenience palate would like it though. Homemade prosciutto and bacon sure sound good though. Cause I love me some bacon. Oink!
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Good one Michelle!
TV, interesting points you brought to the table.
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whitemeat
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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I can hunt pretty good
for gear that is...
found this at the bas of SE face of the captain the other day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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WBraun
climber
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Hey that's my stuff.
If you look at it with a high powered electronic scanning microscope you'll see my name somewhere on that sh!t ......
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Those two guys on the left look dumber than the hounds.....i'll bet their nightime dress is all white.
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Einstein
climber
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Dingus obviously doesn't have a clue what is going on out in CA so ignore his inflammatory B.S.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Just had some wild pig spaghetti. Delicious and I'm grateful.
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Jim Clipper
climber
from: forests to tree farms
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If I remember, the extinction of giant sloths, mammoth, and a couple other varieties of north american mega fauna coincided with the appearance of humans in the hood. Maybe same same in Australia. Just sayin. Now if they had AK's...... "stupid" hungry humans
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Dingbat (fill out the butthurt form Dingbat) has me partially sympathetic. "Sportsmen"? What the heck?
Ron said: "Couch, Chukar are hardly un armed. Hearing far better than ours, eyes far better than ours and legs far stronger than ours. Then add wings. They laugh at hunters every day of the season. werd. First chukar hunt is for food and sport, after that REVENGE is the strongest motive. "
I was doing some walkabout in Hawaii, big island, no folks about. I hear a Chukar....WTF? I follow it ducking under brush, walking over pahoyhoy lava rocks..(like the dog said when he wiped with sandpaper: rough). I finally get a sighting and am close enough to blast: Chukar. Real Chukar, a whole flocking flock of the suckers. Same brand as around here Chukar.
WTF?
Turns out that some jackalope had introduced them and they thrived. They get hunted. Cue non-Nutjob rant. Sad to see it occurring. Real real sad.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Killin' sh#t.
What fun.
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