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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:14am PT
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So far there haven't been any suggestions on how to improve the grant selection process. What kind of "code of ethics" do you feel should be adopted? How can the selection process be improved?
It seems to me that something should be done to increase the imagination of the applicants. This mess proves how easy it is to "take" another's ideas. It's easy to follow someone's elses thinking of what's a suitable objective and so far most of the grants have awarded that. It's much more difficult to develop your own ideas and it's this "imagination" that advances the sport. I feel that it's that type the foward thinking that pushes the sport into the future. So what should/can be done to spur independent thinking on the part of those applying for climbing grants?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 17, 2013 - 11:23am PT
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Get a f*#king job and pay for your own climbing vacations, don't worry about how others pay for theirs.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Nov 17, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
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Climbing grant selection is essentially a political/backroom process and has been so as long as I can remember. If you don't want to get denied, don't apply. There are many climbers asking for funding and little cash to dispense.
It is likely that receiving a grant provides greater benefits than simply the cash. What the grant implies is your acceptance into the political structure of the climbing community, and with that comes the ability to leverage that into other financial and sponsorship opportunities.
Think of the climbing version of a frat...
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steve shea
climber
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Nov 17, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
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Todd speaks the truth. It really is a lot easier and more satisfying to pay your own way. Plus your are not beholding to anyone. If you stay away from the glamour peaks it can be done reasonably, that is if climbing is really your goal. As Bill Parcells said "your are what your record says you are". All the free money will not change that. If you really want it, it can be done without sponsorship.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 17, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
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It seems like most of these grants are going to people who have no firsthand knowledge of the areas they are seeking financial support for. How can a photo be expected of an objective you've never seen?
The other idea I have is that a photo, your photo not someone else's, should be required. This would obviously mean that the applicant has shown some dedication by personally exploring an area on their own before asking for any financial assistance. By doing this the money would go to more deserving/committed applicants.
The argument that only the "poor" should qualify is iffy at best.
Jeff look at all the guys from Alaska that you know who have gotten grants. There's been quite a few. Ask yourself why they are poor? A reluctance to get a "real, full time" job is the only reason. Why go through having to work hard to pay for your trip when you can just fill out a grant application to get your vacation funded.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 17, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
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There's no climbing on the North Pole
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Nov 17, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
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There's no climbing on the North Pole
This is new information to me!
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 17, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
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My point is that many of these grants are going to finance trips to reasonable affordable destinations. Alaska for example is a pretty cheap place to climb. What's wrong with a grant committe requiring some firsthand knowledge before funding subsequent trips? After all if an applicant is committed enough to "deserve" a grant why would this pose any problem?
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 17, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
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That wouldn't be much of a problem as I have a full time job. Why should a first trip to an area be funded? It shows a lack of commitment on the part of the applicant
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Nov 17, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
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Why should a first trip to an area be funded?
I would think to a committee considering applications, this might be considered in the positive column...
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 17, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
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If it's the first trip ever, as in a previously unexplored area, then yes I might agree.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Nov 17, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
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What I'm saying is that I don't feel a photo should carry so much weight. I just don't feel like it's all that important yet every grant application I've seen ask for (requires) one.
What's up with the same people getting the same grant year after year? I've been told it's because they, those awarding the grants, don't receive very many qualified applications. If that is the case then I feel there's a problem with the entire process. Both the application process and the selection process. How could it be that hard to "give away" money.
The main reason I haven't applied for any grants is because of the "for selling" of the proposed objective. The idea of hyping up what an applicant is going to do seems bogus to me. Why would someone want to advertise, to the world, their proposed objective? Most who go through the process of finding big, quality, unclimbed objectives at their own expense don't want that stuff sprayed to the world. Like I said before the "free" grant money is to expensive for me.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Nov 18, 2013 - 03:08am PT
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The idea of hyping up what an applicant is going to do seems bogus to me. Why would someone want to advertise, to the world, their proposed objective? Most who go through the process of finding big, quality, unclimbed objectives at their own expense don't want that stuff sprayed to the world. Like I said before the "free" grant money is to expensive for me.
+1
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 18, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
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you guys are more naive than the politards, like, six people in the world care about this. and they're all here arguing about it.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 18, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
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thanks for the heads up, I didn't know the "sport" was being ruined for "all the rest of us".
If you consider climbing a sport, much less an important one...well, that's just sad.
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