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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Nov 10, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
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Probably the most interesting part of this whole thing, is that none of us can really understand what happened back then (unless the one black rock climber is lurking).
probably true about the not understanding; but i don't know how a present day black rock climber could make the subject more comprehensible.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Nov 11, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
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#3 Santanas next to Nomads has some pretty good food.
Damn straight.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Nov 11, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
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I don't understand what you redneck defenders of slavery have against this one, especially on vet's day:
You can't really advocate flying the confederate flag without at least implicitly renouncing ol'glory... unless you are a fuking moran... oh, I see... carry on.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
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I did a little research into the so called "confederate flag" and the topic of what motivated the southern soldiers to join the fight. There is a lot of information out there thus it was a pretty easy topic to research and those you interested in a less emotional treatment, than that displayed on ST, might take a moment to read what the West Virginia Historical Society had to say on the matter... surely better than all the slander and hate being spread back and forth so casually on this thread. It is of historical and not modern context. Don't dismay... it only takes a couple of minutes to read.
http://www.wvculture.org/history/wvhs1404.html
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Nov 11, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
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Much of this is based on ignorance. The girl with the Swastica tramp stamp almost certainly would feel differently if you took her back to Auswitz in a time machine and she got to talk to mothers and daughters as they were being fed into furnaces by big slavering Krauts with square jaws, clipboards and direct orders from the High Command.
Luckily, with a little compassion and understanding show them, many people can change, but not be being beaten down further. Most people championing an outlaw approach to life are so marginalized they have little more to hold onto than their resistance. Of course some of them are just plain bad sauce, but probably fewer than we might think.
But sh#t can get ugly out there, and little is uglier than racism and Confederate pride, avatars of American stupidity and backwardness, whereby ignorance and spiritual bankruptcy are held as virtues. Truly a Demonic inversion of reality.
JL
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Nov 11, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
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Hey, el cap pics,
Thanks for your posts. I appreciate the thought and the reasonable tone.
Agree fully that most of the soldiers who were sent to kill each other had good intentions, on both sides.
The Confederate Flag?
More background info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
Wikipedia claims that the classic, modern Confederate flag was not used much during the war years, except in battle. And limited usage for a long time after.
Wikipedia states it reappeared, in a big way, in 1956, and became used (or misused?) as a potent symbol representing the fight against desegregation in public schools. And, in the years to come, against the entire Civil Rights movement.
That was perhaps a turning point; what was once (and still is, in many minds) a more innocent, generic symbol of defiance against yankee (or any other) imperialism and over-reach became, in many other minds, a symbol associated with racism and segregation.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Nov 11, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
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"coal dust is good for you"
Well, sh#t-damn! If that's the case I'm going to start freebasing gasoline, since it is a more refined product anyhows.
"increase in girls wearing shoes corresponds with rise in birth defects"
That's why I keep all of mine barefoot.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 11, 2013 - 02:07pm PT
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How has the Confederate flag hurt anyone?
Hmmm...
The first Klan was founded in 1865 in Pulaski, Tennessee, by six veterans of the Confederate Army.
Founded of course, to promote freedom and southern hospitality.
Nope, can't see how anyone would equate the Confederate flag with any sort of harm.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
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Asheville, NC, is a slice of heaven and can out-Berkeley most places.
There's so many Russians there they've three grocery stores!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Nov 11, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
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Largo posted Luckily, with a little compassion and understanding show them, many people can change, but not be being beaten down further. Most people championing an outlaw approach to life are so marginalized they have little more to hold onto than their resistance. Of course some of them are just plain bad sauce, but probably fewer than we might think.
Listen people, ok? This man knows a little something about cutting black some slack.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Nov 11, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
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I had a mohawk and wore a jacket with an anarchy symbol on it when I was 13. I had no idea what those symbols conveyed to others... it was just associated with the scene that got me amped up to sk8 (D.O.A., T.S.O.L., D.K., half-pipes, skirts, and road rash).
Once I learned what that big A stood for and I couldn't change the meaning of it just by wishful thinking, I disassociated myself from it. I find it really sad that some of you "adults" are dumber than I was at 13 and insist on trying to twist the clear meaning behind the symbols you promote.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
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Clearly a lot of strong opinions on the subject. I don't have much respect for the stars and bars, but fall short of thinking that assault is going to solve anything. I don't care who you are, there is always someone bigger and meaner, and just punching someone out does nothing to promote the validity of your argument.
The real reason I'm posting is to share a link to a story I heard on Snap Judgement the other day. Daryl Davis is a black piano player, and his story of befriending and changing klansmen is just flat out stunning. It's worth taking the 20 minutes to listen to his powerful story. It's on this page, the story called "silver dollar lounge" http://snapjudgment.org/unrequited
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Nov 11, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
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Off White, nice story.
The first part reminds me of my ultra-white, racists aunt... I was playing Bob Marley, "I Shot the Sheriff."
She said... "this is interesting, but I like the original version better."
"Original version?"
"Ya, Eric Clapton's original."
She refused to believe a black man was the author of a song she liked. I gave up after 5 min.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 11, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
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Some of you probably think the word COONASS is racist too...
Sometimes slander is just easier. RACIST!!!!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Nov 11, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
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Ron said Some of you probably think the word COONASS is racist too...
Words aren't racist. People that try to make excuses for American slavery are.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
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I am surprised at you Largo... Normally you offer some kind of persuasion and logic, presented in a civil tone, to lead others to a better understanding of your views so they can be considered in a more serious way. It seems you have fallen into the irrational slander, name calling and ugliness that seems to pervade this thread... how does it feel down there in the mud Bro? An argument is never convincing that relies of such tactics. None of you, including the original poster of the thread, who have resorted to such tactics, have convinced anyone, except yourselves.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 06:59pm PT
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Words aren't racist. People that try to make excuses for American slavery are.
No, you just want to find racism everywhere! You cannot debate conservatism without calling people racists! That is your only card. Welcome to Jesse and Al Sharpton's playbook.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Nov 11, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
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I am surprised at you Largo... Normally you offer some kind of persuasion and logic, presented in a civil tone, to lead others to a better understanding of your views so they can be considered in a more serious way. It seems you have fallen into the irrational slander, name calling and ugliness that seems to pervade this thread... how does it feel down there in the mud Bro? An argument is never convincing that relies of such tactics. None of you, including the original poster of the thread, who have resorted to such tactics, have convinced anyone, except yourselves.
Put down the Malt Bevs, brah, Largo is not involved here. But maybe he should be...
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