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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Madbolter, please don't start your rant by misquoting me.
I had just written a much longer response, but then I re-read the end of your post...
Our founders WANTED a country in which people would die more than in other countries; that is a necessary result of a truly FREE country!
... and I gave up. That right there shows the fundamental flaw in all forms of democracy.
TE
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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I wish there were far fewer people and each could be "seen" as the individuals they are...
so logically you should be for the promotion of any implement that leads to "far fewer people".
I guess then that means your opposition to private gun ownership is because government monopolies on the same have always preceded mass population reductions.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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so logically you should be for the promotion of any implement that leads to "far fewer people".
If I want fewer people, then your "logical" conclusion is that I want more people to die tragic deaths? And if I want more money, I promote theft? And if I want more beer, I promote alcoholism?
What a deplorable display of idiocy.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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If you changed how accessible guns were in your country (eg, treat them like a car) - you wouldn't have so many deaths.
If you changed what you Americans imprinted on, or thought about guns from birth on up, (eg. as a tool to solve problems vs. a tool to get dinner with) - you wouldn't have so many deaths.
That is essentially the two big differences between 3000 deaths and 600 deaths per year per 30 million people.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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The gun violence table in the link Mr Hedge posted earlier...might leave some pondering social turmoil and its overwhelming effect on violence.
If the statistics for the District of Columbia are correct, they manifest a very high homicide rate, there, despite a very low rate of gun ownership.
...D.C. having 21.8 murders per 100,000...more than double the next highest, Louisiana, at 9.6. The District having, by a wide margin, the lowest gun ownership (at 3.6%) in the nation. Are those statistics accurate, and do they differ markedly from other years?
Washington D.C. appears to have had about ten times the murder rate of the intermountain states(MT, ID, WY, UT, CO)... but gun owner ship there only a small fraction (Idaho, Montana & Wyoming having over 50% gun ownership).
(Perhaps it's the significant numbers of hunting rifles in the mountain states make these statistics look so lopsided)
:-/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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You do realize the population density of DC, unlike the states, nearly doubles every day of the work week due to commuters, right? That kind of throws a wrench in those murder rate calculations.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Are the commuters primarily victims or perpetrators?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Dunno. But I do know violent crime is strongly correlated with population density... which increases daily in DC... yet the population used to calculate murder rates would not. Hardly fair to compare DC to western states.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Or another way to look at the plethora of examples slanted in either direction: Gun laws have little or no effect on actual violent crime rates.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Georgia, Florida, South Carolina and Mississippi all have significantly higher murder rates than CA, or the rest of the country. Shouldn't an armed, conservative population result in lower gun murder rates?
That's the theory...
But the "heavily armed" conservative mountain states don't have the socio/economic inequities of "the South".
Liberal California and the conservative mountain states of the west have a much different social ambience than the deep South.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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>Cooling off periods? When do mentally unstable people "cool off" and how does one tell?
Once again, you don't address the issue. I assume that you don't understand the concept of a person becoming very angry, and doing something in the heat of passion when they're not able to rationally consider the consequences.
Often times, a few days allows a person to calm down.
Surely, they taught you about this as a LEO? They certainly teach that to modern officers.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Rong, since you did not answer my question, nor did anyone, I ask again:
What harm is caused a legitimate legal gun purchaser by a mandatory cooling off period and a robust background check, and mandatory gun use training?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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There are all sorts of interesting statistics that may relate to relative murder rates. Hedge's obsession with population density is sort of interesting, but isn't Western Europe pretty densely populated?
Wessy's theory about DC and those evil commuters gave me a good chuckle-- yeah, it's those damn federal employees who live in MD and VA who must be responsible for the high murder rate there.
Here's some stats that might correlate with murder rates, at least based on the states that Hedge mentioned.
1 Mississippi 1,074,200 37.30%
2 Louisiana 1,452,396 31.98%
3 Georgia 2,950,435 30.02%
4 Maryland 1,700,298 29.44%
5 South Carolina 1,290,684 28.48%
6 Alabama 1,251,311 26.38%
7 North Carolina 2,048,628 21.60%
8 Delaware 191,814 20.95%
9 Virginia 1,551,399 19.91%
10 Tennessee 1,055,689 16.78%
11 Florida 2,999,862 15.91%
12 Arkansas 449,895 15.76%
13 New York 3,073,800 15.18%
14 Illinois 1,866,414 14.88%
15 New Jersey 1,204,826 14.46%
16 Michigan 1,400,362 14.24%
17 Ohio 1,407,681 12.04%
18 Texas 2,979,598 11.91%
19 Missouri 704,043 11.49%
20 Pennsylvania 1,377,689 10.79%
21 Connecticut 362,296 10.34%
22 Indiana 591,397 9.07%
23 Nevada 218,626 8.10%
24 Oklahoma 277,644 7.96%
25 Kentucky 337,520 7.71%
26 Massachusetts 434,398 7.02%
27 California 2,299,072 6.67%
28 Rhode Island 60,189 6.36%
29 Kansas 167,864 6.15%
30 Wisconsin 359,148 6.07%
31 Minnesota 274,412 4.57%
32 Nebraska 82,885 4.50%
33 Colorado 201,737 4.28%
34 Alaska 23,263 4.27%
35 Arizona 259,008 4.16%
36 Washington 240,042 3.74%
37 West Virginia 63,124 3.58%
38 Hawaii 21,424 3.08%
39 New Mexico 42,550 2.97%
40 Iowa 89,148 2.68%
41 Oregon 69,206 2.01%
42 Wyoming 4,748 1.29%
43 Utah 29,287 1.27%
44 New Hampshire 15,035 1.22%
45 South Dakota 10,207 1.14%
46 North Dakota 7,960 1.08%
47 Maine 15,707 1.03%
48 Idaho 9,810 0.95%
49 Vermont 6,277 0.87%
50 Montana 4,027 0.67%
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Hedge's obsession with population density is sort of interesting, but isn't Western Europe pretty densely populated?
That is the point, dipsh#t. Violent crime rates vs. population density in Western Europe are consistent with those in the US and elsewhere, but the MURDER rates are much lower... due to fewer guns.
Wessy's theory about DC and those evil commuters gave me a good chuckle-- yeah, it's those damn federal employees who live in MD and VA who must be responsible for the high murder rate there.
Holy fuking clueless.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Shouldn't the densely populated conservative states, with their CCW laws, have lower gun murder rates, instead of, in LA's case, double CA's?
If the theory that an armed populace lowers homicide (and crime) rates were 100% correct...
But it's not.
Armed citizens may dissuade some crime...but places with great turmoil and discontent will still have violence.
Yes, confiscating guns would likely lessen homicides in locales with much social discord (i.e. Africa and parts of Hispania). But will that make innocent populations more vulnerable to predators?
There aren't easy answers...but ultmately the fever of violence has to be cured with social equity and abatement of the fear and loathing.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Yes, clearly, if you don't want the government monitoring your communications you obviously don't want them regulating tools designed to kill... or toxic waste... or pollution... or corporations... or banks... or food and drugs... or anything at all.
Makes perfect sense.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Hopefully those stats represent gun murder rates?
This thread topic being gun murder?
This list I pasted shows the percentage of African American population.
Now don't get panty-bunched or anything, we're just noting correlations here and I couldn't help but notice that you were picking on some fine Southern states that I'm sure do have a high percentage of right wing conservatives. But they also have high percentage of an ethnic group that is involved in a disproportionately high percentage of murders, both as perpetrators and victims.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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IF it was left up to our local LEOs, our gang problem would be solved in days.
What would they do, Ron?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Ron, can you answer these questions with a simple 'yes' or 'no' ?
*Background checks should be required for gun purchases.
*A waiting period (of some length) should be required for gun purchases.
*There should be some limitations on the types of guns & capacities that typical civilians can legally obtain.
A simple 'yes' or 'no'.
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