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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 21, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
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'Permit' system...I wonder what the rationale is for that.
I'd love to know some of the underlying dynamics that brought the kinds of management decisions that occurred here in the last few days. Outwardly, some of them make you scratch your head wondering, and there's buzz that local vs. Fed politics were at play, but it's hard to know for sure.
In any case, it's gonna be a bit crazy out there today...forecasts for more thundershowers to 'welcome' the returning residents.
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HighGravity
Trad climber
Southern California
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Jul 21, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
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The permits are so the residence can get back into town without others coming in to congest the roads or loot from properties. You've got a town of around 6,500 residence who want to get home via two small mountain roads. The last thing they need is some jackwagon trying to see fire damage crashing their car and causing more delays for these people to get home.
Edit: if people want to help the town, they should make a trip up this weekend, spend some cash, have some lunch, etc.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jul 21, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
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Changing Weather: Rain is forecasted to continue throughout the day with rain increasing and thunderstorms possibly developing in the afternoon. Thunderstorms could bring strong downdraft winds and lightning. A flash flood watch is in place and firefighters remain alert to the changing weather conditions.
Hopefully this fire will now be in retreat.
Equipment on-Scene:
2,678 firefighters, including 89 engines, 16 helicopters, 10 fixed wing aircraft, including two DC-10s (Tanker 910 and 911), 68 hand-crews, 28 water-tenders, and 14 dozers. Down a few hundred firefighters from yesterday evening.
A well deserved rest.
Increase in hand crews. They're probably patrolling the lines, putting out "smokes" and keeping the fire contained.
2 DC-10s! That's all there are. 12,000 gallons of retardant dropped in 8 seconds.
Could have been a lot worse. I'm pleased that the residents will have some relief from their anxiety.
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John M
climber
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Jul 21, 2013 - 02:26pm PT
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A permit just might be a way for them to have a chance to ask people to not get in the way. Go home and don't go driving around doing the looky loo.. They could do that at the check point, but then that would make the check point go slower. Making everyone get a permit keeps the lookyloos out, and keeps the check point moving. If this thing blows up again, then too many people on the road could hinder the response.
I have seen how quickly a fire can blow up. About 25 years ago there was a fire near Fillmore Ca. It burned through one of the canyons near town. There are a couple of squeeze points in that canyon where one car accident could have held up the fire response. For some homes, a 5 minute delay would have meant a lost home. That fire moved crazy fast. If too many people delay leaving to the last minute, then you can have road jams.
On that fire I was helping the guy who maintained the cities water wells. We ended up driving through a wall of fire because the fire shifted and the winds went from 10 mph to 50 mph and the fire tore through the side canyon we were in. The fire peeled the paint off the sides of his vehicle. What saved us was a fire crew at the end of the road who cooled us down with a fire hose. I was on the radio as my friend drove telling dispatch that we were in trouble. The fire crew got to the road we came out about one minute before we did. Their quick action on a hose saved our skins. One car in the way and we might have been toast.
Most people can respond well. but all it takes is one fool to screw things up. And we all know just how many unthinking fools there are out there. So thats why governments have to respond with more caution then most people would like.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 21, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
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"You've got a town of around 6,500 residence..."
Man, the media coverage of this event was pretty bad. The amount of misinformation and hyperbole was really unbelievable.
ABC/Channel 7 described this as the 'desert town of Idyllwild', and that 6500 people had been evacuated. Umm....even if you include Alandale/Pine Cove/Idyllwild/Mtn Center, that's only about 4000 people total. Only the Idyllwild area was evacuated, which is maybe 2000 people.
One well-known, longtime local, Bob Baker, was renamed 'Bob Parker' by ABC/7, in spite of his repeated clarifications. We teased him mercilessly about his new alter-ego.
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Alois
Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
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Jul 21, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
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Pen and I read the Internet updates from Town Crier, the local Idyllwild newspaper which was open and reporting on the crisis. We think they did fantastic job covering and reporting on the fire. They were on the ball throughout all of this, they were/are accurate and timely. Thank you Town Crier, thanks Becky and Jack Clark...
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BeeHay
Trad climber
San Diego CA
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Jul 21, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
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Guy on NPR this morning kept calling it "Idyllwood".
You local boys really have been stressed haven't you, or did all the womenfolk leave the hill?
BH
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jul 21, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
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Here are some recent USFS Active Fire Mapping data ( partially from satellites that correlate precise infrared and other data readings ).
The top photo shows a flare -up in red that started over the last 12+ hrs.
The bottom photo shows that area downgraded to orange at the 12 pm update.
The green icon east of town is Tahquitz Peak.( from that icon track to 10 o'clock for Lily Rock and continue across the valley in direct line to Suicide Rock)
Overall they show the extent of the fire damage throughout the area. When conditions permit they will release detailed photo maps of the area to further confirm the affected areas.
Once again ,kudos to the crews that put themselves in harms way on this.
Idyllwild-- you dodged a big bullet.
I look forward to climbing Tahquitz on Aug. 1
See ya.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jul 21, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
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BTW during one of the more active phases this was how close the fire got to Suicide and Humber Park a couple days ago:
Note: these are photos of that area on a normal day ,sometime probably in the last year ,with the current fire data superimposed
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Alois
Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
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Jul 21, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
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People are returning to the town in droves.
It has rained late in the afternoon, now it's foggy and cloudy, looks to me like a good weather to kill the fire for good.
Pen and I drove up to Humber Park just before noon, there is absolutely no sign of fire in the whole alpine cirque between Suicide and Tahquitz. The North Draw, the area left (climber's left) of Tahquitz, was spared too. If you drive around the town, there are just no visible signs of the fire which is fantastic.
I think this saga is more or less over. We dodged a cannon ball...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jul 22, 2013 - 05:47am PT
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Best wishes to all - firefighters, residents, etc, and yes I agree with Alois, the Town Crier is who I mainly followed from here in Ireland. Some of us journalists are not that bad (and then, there sure are a lot of dolts in the profession - and yes it is a profession, but full of dimwits, I know I have worked with them, could even be one myself).
I've always wanted to climb at T&S. Hopefully, someday, fingers crossed, I will.
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Keith Leaman
Trad climber
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Jul 22, 2013 - 11:09am PT
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Good photo sent yesterday from my former boss, Gordon Rowley of the Angeles NF. The email said: "C130 near Suicide Rock SBNF". Clearly not Suicide in the photo (Antsell ?) but looks like it spotted pretty close to the crags. Thanks for the up-dates everyone. Best wishes to all.
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Deekaid
climber
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Jul 22, 2013 - 11:23am PT
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What was the final determination of cause? I saw conflicting info and stopped looking.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 22, 2013 - 11:36am PT
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Didn't know there were any ANG wings with J models.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 22, 2013 - 11:59am PT
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There's no official word on the cause as yet, but the local buzz is that it was an electrical pump on a well at a ranch near Mountain Center that shorted out, causing the initial fire. There's no talk of arson.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 22, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
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The email said: "C130 near Suicide Rock SBNF".
That's actually Antsell rock, on the desert divide. The summit is class 3, and it's an amazingly gorgeous peak along the coolest hiking ridge south of the sierras (NO JOKE!). The trail curves around the ridge, being on the west side of the ridge before the rocky buttress then dropping off to the east side to skirt it. Wonder what it'll look like now...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 22, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
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Cannonball missed......this time.
The clock has restarted. As posted elsewhere, the countdown, from 10-20 years, has now started.
Question: are the affected people now going to demand reasonable and adequate preventive measures to forestall the next conflagration? Or are they going to put themselves at the mercy of weather, again, should they live so long?
I am certainly a clean air advocate. However, the regional air quality management groups are emerging in many areas of Ca as the enemy of preventative prescriptive burns.
The burning requirements are SO restrictive, that they effectively block burning most of the time. What they consistently fail to consider is the alternative.....the massive fires that will result if smaller fires do not occur. Eliminating fire is NOT an option.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jul 22, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
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These photos are from July 17:
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John Butler
Social climber
SLC, Utah
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Jul 22, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
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thx to firefighters for saving it all (and my vacation week after next) :-)
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 22, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
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Question: are the affected people now going to demand reasonable and adequate preventive measures to forestall the next conflagration? Or are they going to put themselves at the mercy of weather, again, should they live so long? What is it that they are not doing that they could be? I'm not familiar with whatever yard clearing policies they may have up there. I have a place where they now monitor and ticket to see if your lot has been cleared to 100 ft. of the structure, which is usually done by burning or hauling away the detritus. However, in the same community, there is a push for "thinning", which I see as double speak for logging, which would create some cash for the community but do nothing to prevent or limit the scope of a fire should one pass thru the town itself.
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