Nanga Parbat basecamp slaughter

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bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 30, 2013 - 07:22pm PT
yes bluering christians do this and they take pictures of it. Then they do even worse things.

Course it depends how you define christian.

Where does this happen? Torturing kids to watch their innocent parents executed before their eyes.

They aren't even combatants. They were civis.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 30, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
I'll bet you would be hard pressed to find a KKK member who didn't consider themselves good Christians.

All good Democrats too.

The only American political party to have ever had an official terrorist wing.



More handiwork of Barry and Billary's favorite "freedom fighters"

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b57_1372272008

Note the Pashtun head ware on the leader who is definitely NOT Syrian.

One of the victims is a Catholic priest. I'm sure there are a few cheers for that.


(Couldn't watch the whole thing)

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 30, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
thats what our special forces and cia assest are in the business of!

dont you know the first thing about counter insurgency actions?

"for every gurilla there are 9 civilians providing him with food clothing and shelter... they are the enemy we engage!"


your heros are simple murders who love to kills civilians in their sleep...

they almost neverhave to fight as is their design via intel and planning


if they do, theyve screwed up


Our guys simply don't roll that way, as much as you'd love to think it. We may get it wrong from time to time, but we target 'targets', not civis. Especially not torturing children!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jun 30, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
"our practices TARGET civilians and you damn well known it!"


Instead of being so hard on the side that takes the trouble to employ precision guided ( and extremely expensive, when compared to any other alternative ) munitions, how about looking around, and seeing how other countries deal with the same problem.

When someone like the Syrians or the Pakistanis want to take out a terrorist, they shell the town with artillery. They'll destroy an entire town. And they're cool with it, too, so long as they get the guy they're after.

Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 30, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
Instead of being so hard on the side that takes the trouble to employ precision guided ( and extremely expensive, when compared to any other alternative ) munitions, how about looking around, and seeing how other countries deal with the same problem.


Why hold ourselves to a lower standard?

I think the question is: Are all of us totally satisfided with the way things are playing out once we go on the offensive, no matter how valid the reasons seem to be?

Some of us are ok if civilians get killed. ("Ok" here only means we are not willing to suspend operations, no matter now "bad" we feel abot the collateral deaths.) Others of us are not so proud of the fallout, and have to wonder if there might not be other means.

Basically, how much carnage can you stomach? Some more than others. People all have different criteria by which they judge the world, and their own behavior. But once we start blaming external forces for our policy decisions ("They" madde us do it), aggression has free reign - we can easily see why.

JL
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 30, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
Follow the links I've embedded, they are usually from foreign sources, where they claim we hit legit targets.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=217892262123461097139.00047a67c0494965aae08&msa=0

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=217892262123461097139.00047d7972b0a1a531ea0&msa=0

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=217892262123461097139.000478a77bcbb67f67e36&msa=0

target-rich environment, apparently......
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 30, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
Hey John, how about looking at the obvious problem that everybody is so willing to overlook?

Islamic extremism. Duh?

And stop equivocating with every other religion. It's utterly invalid!

There is a big problem with muzzies. Not Christians, not Hindus, and definately not Buddhists...but they are starting to fight back, the Buddhists.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 30, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
Blue, I am not looking at the reasons you and others tell themselves WHY they let loose the dogs of war. I am looking at what's called the "process," what we are actually doing (killing), NOT why. You are looking at WHY, and no further. That's your perogative, but you are missing the crux of this other conversation (process), which is a very difficult one to listen to because it shifts the responsibility to us. Period. And we all know how much easier it is to blame the "guilty party," who "deserves" God's wrath and retribution.

As mentioned, it is an illusion that others, be they Islamic this or that, "make us" aggressive. Throughout history the various sides of any conflict have always been able to point to the other camp and say, "they are the reason. They've forced our hands." The one constant in all of this is, quite obviously, the aggressive act itself. So rather than get lost in the justification, some of us are gonig back a step and wondering if there is another approach.

Plato once said, Only the dead have seen the end of war. Some of us hope he was wrong, but he will always be right so long as we can justify aggression as the only course of action, and tell ourselves we are ignorant to think otherwise.

JL
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 30, 2013 - 10:39pm PT
Only the dead have seen the end of war.

Actually the earliest verifiable source is George Santayana in 1922

It appears nowhere in Plato's writings.

What's the proper response when someone wants to saw your head off with a kitchen knife?



Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 30, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
Some of the least aggressive people I have met were in the military.
They were truly reluctant warriors. When you command nuclear weapons you become very philosophical.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 30, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
Some of the least aggressive people I have met were in the military.

And some of the most aggressive are chickenhawks who never served, but who just know that the right thing to do is kill as many of those other people as possible so that they will never threaten America again.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 30, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
What's the proper response when someone wants to saw your head off with a kitchen knife?


Any of these arguments can be moronically reduced to a direct conflict with a direct threat, but what I and others am talking about is not so much immediate self-defense scenarios, but aggression as a stragedy for peace - a far more nuanced subject.

The problem is when aggression remains the go-to stradegy, you feed a closed loop. If you're fine with that, and the fall out, then you're simply one of those who will perpetuate the cycle while telling yourself there is no other way. And verily, so long as you believe tat as gospel, you will be 100% correct. You'll get no argument from me on that count.

JL
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 1, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
Any of these arguments can be moronically reduced to a direct conflict with a direct threat, but what I and others am talking about is not so much immediate self-defense scenarios, but aggression as a stragedy for peace - a far more nuanced subject.

The problem is when aggression remains the go-to stradegy, you feed a closed loop. If you're fine with that, and the fall out, then you're simply one of those who will perpetuate the cycle while telling yourself there is no other way. And verily, so long as you believe tat as gospel, you will be 100% correct. You'll get no argument from me on that count.

JL


Well, one "solution" that you appear eager to find is to bring everybody home and just defend our borders. Stop all foreign aid, stop all associations and "propping up" Middle Eastern countries with oil money and support (including Israel).

Become self-sufficient at home. With oil too. Give everybody the finger for a while. Disengage. Let them kill each other (which they'll inevitably do), and save our boys.

I'd be down with that.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 30, 2014 - 07:24pm PT
http://www.dawn.com/news/1115891/chinese-american-was-target-of-nanga-parbat-massacre

Rantburg short version,but the letters on DAWN are worth the read.

[DAWN] The massacre of 10 foreign climbers on Pakistain's "Killer Mountain" a year ago came after a failed attempt
"Curses! Foiled again!"
to capture a Chinese-American to use him as a high-value bargaining chip, officials and bully boy sources have said.

The June 22 attack at the base camp for the 8,126-metre Nanga Parbat, Pakistain's second-highest mountain — nicknamed for its treacherous terrain — was the deadliest assault on foreigners in the country for a decade.

Continued from Page 2



Through interviews with multiple officials, turbans and negotiators assigned to bring the culprits out of hiding, AFP has been able to piece together a picture of the events surrounding the slaughter and its aftermath.

One year on, with tourism in the northern Gilgit-Baltistan region still suffering, most of the 10 suspects implicated in the attack are still on the lam, while sources close to the investigation have cast doubt on the guilt of some of those incarcerated
"Maw! They're comin' to get me, Maw!"
.

The victims were identified as three Ukrainians, two Chinese — including Chinese-American Chen Honglu — two Slovakians, one Lithuanian and one Nepalese as well as a Pak guide.

But dual national Chen was the prime target, according to bully boy sources.

Mystery commanders
The story begins in early June 2013, when a local jihadist contacted other fighters to tell them two mysterious commanders had arrived from out of town and wanted to meet.

The northern Gilgit-Baltistan region, high in the Himalayas, has been relatively immune to the bully boy insurgency plaguing the country in recent years.

The men met at a house in the town of Chilas, where the two strangers, wearing all-enveloping burqas, were introduced as important Taliban cadres from Afghanistan.

The local fighters were briefed on the planned Nanga Parbat operation.

"They were told that the mission was about kidnapping a foreigner in order to later bargain for the release of an important Taliban capo," an investigator assigned to the case said.

Militant sources told AFP the Chinese-American was the specific target, with the plan being to trade him for Taliban in Afghanistan.

The men then met a local sectarian group in a forest, recruiting two more fighters — against the sectarian group leader's wishes — to bring their number to 10.

They left for the Nanga Parbat base camp in the early evening, wearing the uniforms of the Gilgit Scouts, a paramilitary police unit.

"The two burqa-clad commanders had taken off their burqas and were in military uniforms like the rest of us but their faces were covered with a cloth," a bully boy source told AFP, explaining that they were supposed to grab the target.

But as the attack unfolded in the freezing night, Chen burst out of his tent and tackled one of the turbans using martial arts techniques.

The bully boy, named Mujeeb, panicked and shot him, destroying the main purpose of the mission and infuriating the shadowy masked commanders.

The remaining climbers were then tied up and shot one by one.

"It all happened because of Mujeeb," said a local source who spoke on condition of anonymity.

"The actual plan had been to kidnap a Chinese-American but his reaction led to the killing of himself and 10 others," he said.

This account was corroborated by two officials from the team investigating the attack.

After the slaughter, the attackers walked for five hours to a remote village where they buried their uniforms and had breakfast before walking on to another village and dispersing.

High-value target
Beyond Chen's US nationality it is unclear why he became such a valued target of the group.

The 50-year-old studied electrical engineering at Tsinghua University in China, and worked for some time in Caliphornia, an impregnable bastion of the Democratic Party, before returning to Shanghai, according to the Alpinist magazine.

In a video clip recorded by negotiators who met with him, Mujeeb owned up to the killing of Chen but told them he would not surrender because he acted in "self-defence".

"What did you expect me to do, wait for him to kill me? I panicked and opened fire," Mujeeb said on the video.

More than four months went by before authorities made their first arrests in the case.

A total of 18 people were detained, of whom five are still in jug — but several bully boy sources say only one of them was involved in the attack, while the rest were forced to confess.

Mujeeb remains in hiding in the forests of the district, where from time to time he makes audio recordings of jihadist poetry that find their way to the markets of Gilgit town.

Bashir Qureshi, a member of the negotiating team, said there were many grey areas in the case.

"Nothing is clear, they have mixed up four different cases to give an impression that all the perpetrators have been arrested but the real perpetrators are still on the lam," he said.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Aurora Colorado
Jun 30, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
The 50-year-old studied electrical engineering at Tsinghua University in China, and worked for some time in Caliphornia, an impregnable bastion of the Democratic Party

The BBC was going on and on today about this Caliphate thing. The terrorists have apparently gone ahead and created one in Iraq. Better push the panic button, or next thing you know we'll ALL be wearing the niqab. (lol)
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Oct 19, 2014 - 12:06am PT

Edited: Thanks, Jan. The post has been moved to it's right place by TGT. I didn't find the right thread.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Oct 19, 2014 - 07:27am PT
How about a separate thread on the Nepal disaster? Since it was a case of weather and poor judgement it really doesn't belong on a thread about terrorism. Nepal was and is safe from that at least.
Messages 161 - 177 of total 177 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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