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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
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Thanks, Bluering. I did talk to Wendell, He's a real sweetheart. Don't let the word get out.
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Kathy Dunn
Boulder climber
Idyllwild, CA
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May 24, 2013 - 12:53am PT
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Thank you so much for all your kinds words about my son. Thank you ICA for placing Suicide Stairs with Lucas name in the rock. I had the privilege as his mom to hike many times to Suicide to see the different routes. I also had an opportunity to hike with him to the base of Lily Rock and envision what climbers must do to start the climb. Then we hiked around to the back side and bouldered our way up to the top of Lily Rock. How amazing to see the view from the top. His memorial service is June 2 at 5 pm at Camp Maranatha 54162 Maranatha Dr., Idyllwild. The service will be in the amphitheater. This is a special place for Lucas. All our welcome to attend. A meal will be served after the service. Kathy Dunn
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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May 24, 2013 - 01:04am PT
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Kathy, so sorry for your loss.
Not knowing your son other than through this thread I get the feeling he was a fine young man who was following his dreams.
I wish you the best in the days, weeks, and months ahead.
Positive healing sent your way.
Greg, you hang in there. I can see you are a true friend, which is a very special thing for any of us to have and to be.
With much sorrow and understanding,
DD
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 24, 2013 - 10:06am PT
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Just so you aren't disappointed Kathy, it will be a while before I get his name on one of the steps.
Not there yet.
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JillianDunn
climber
Hemet
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May 24, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
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I would like to understand the definition of "leading".
Also, the "anchor" was placed on sketchy rocks?
And the "hey be careful, this rap isn't exactly AMGA approved." Is that a common phrase amongst climbers as a serious warning or more of a phrase taken lightly?
"Off to the right was a not-so-solid looking block, that one could stand on to get an extra few inches, but it was not ideal looking (the size of a mini-fridge)." By the statement of AMGA, were these unstable rocks all communicated?
When you are rappelling, is it easy to spot sketchy rocks?
**What does this mean? "While propping his legs up I noticed the rap device clipped into a single end of the rope"
Im sure these are tough questions but I need a full understanding.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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May 24, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
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My sincere condolences to Lucas' family.
He looked to be a beautiful human being, and from what I read here from those that knew him, he was just that.
I think analyzing this incident is the right thing to do.
I tied tiny overhands near the end of the rope so he could grab the giant, solid flake that starts the technical climbing while unclipping.
How were these knots meant to help him grab the flake?
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nutjob
Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
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May 24, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
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I've been in denial, avoiding reading this. I'm saddened for what you had to go through Greg, and what you and his friends and family will continue to go through for a long time. It sounds like you're handling it with openness and grace, as much as can be expected of anyone.
Given all the shenanigans and stuff that happens over time, what we get used to accepting as common-place and pass off with macabre humor or ultimate faith in our judgment and ability to handle the situation... it just seems so arbitrary when a soul casts off this world.
Hang in there, be there for those who need it, and let yourselves be vulnerable to accepting the love and help offered by those around you.
Edit for pud: If it were me, I'd think of leaving the over-hand knots in the end as courtesy backups, so the other person would feel better about throwing a hand jam or getting established for a little downclimb with one hand, while the other hand is getting the belay device off. The idea is if you slip a little the knot would catch you rather than shooting off the end. Unless you slip right after removing the belay device, or after getting it off one of the strands of rope.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 24, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
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Hi Jillian,
I'm so incredibly sorry for your loss. As climbers we always search for the cause of these events as the answers provide us with information that can save our lives. In this case, I'm not sure there's an easy answer to what happened. From what we've heard, it sounds as though Lucas may have fallen after taking himself off repel (i.e. slipped), been hit by a rock during or after rappel, or simply rapped off the ends of his rope by somehow passing the knot. Unfortunately, no one can know for sure what happened up there. All of us have lived through situations that should have killed us in the mountains, some much more serious than what killed Lucas. It's tragic what happened. As far as what Davis (I do not know him personally) communicated to Lucas, I don't think it had anything to do with what resulted.
His AMGA comment I would take as a light hearted warning not to be taken seriously. By rappelling first he tested the system and put his full trust in it. Clearly, he believed it a system that would safely get them to the ground, and for him it did. It's hard to understand (if not impossible) what happened.
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meld
Trad climber
So Cal
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May 24, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
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I have started to write so many times but just couldn't put the flood of emotion into words. Greg, we (speaking for my entire family) all consider ourselves blessed to call you and Lucas friends. I cant speak of him in the past tense because he lives on in all of us. I am so glad we crashed "sushi night" the week before your climbing trip and got to spend the evening with our sons and Lucas.
Kathy, so many times this past week I have questioned the wisdom of raising my kids climbing - but I wouldn't have it any other way. The opportunity to create lasting memories, cherishing the beauty and diversity of His creations with our our kids -- you can't put a price tag on that. May His spirit of peace and comfort surround you, your family, and all of Lucas's friends who are in need.
Greg, I'm looking forward to climbing with you and your mom again. Lets make it happen!
Melani
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I --
I took the one less traveled by.." ~Frost
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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May 24, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
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I believe the AMGA remark was concerning the destination of the rappel, not the rappel itself. So little rope was left at the destination stance. There was no fixed anchor to clip into, or a safe, flat and wide, destination.
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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May 27, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
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Memorial Day Bump
Susan
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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May 27, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
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Edit for pud: If it were me, I'd think of leaving the over-hand knots in the end as courtesy backups, so the other person would feel better about throwing a hand jam or getting established for a little downclimb with one hand, while the other hand is getting the belay device off. The idea is if you slip a little the knot would catch you rather than shooting off the end. Unless you slip right after removing the belay device, or after getting it off one of the strands of rope.
NJ,
The problem with this practice is overhand knots may fail under body weight. By doing this you are therefore giving the second a false sense of security.
This practice should be eliminated unless substantial knots can be placed.
A prusik or other friction knot above the belay device is helpful in the instance where a rope barely reaches anchors or a safe stance.
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nutjob
Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
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May 27, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
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I see your point pud. Friction knot above belay device seems like a better general strategy; also avoids the risk of forgetting knot in end and getting a rope stuck during a pull. Maybe one other point it helps with: on a tricky exit, if you need one hand on a jam or crimp, it's easier to slide off end of rope (on purpose) and pull down a friction knot with you, versus trying to untie a half hitch or unclipping belay device from rope above the half hitch it might be getting stuck in. One risk though is your hand has to stay on the friction knot to keep it from catching, and then it's hard to grab one end of the rope strand to prevent it from recoiling when the load is removed, and ending up out of reach above you. I'm not settled on what's the "right" way to handle it; I can see different approaches in different scenarios.
I was at Taquitz climbing for the first time yesterday. Cool place, but my mind was not in the right space for being on the sharp end with spicy protection. I ended up bailing right before the end of the first pitch of some 5.9, and I made a big production of it. Was thinking a lot about Greg and Lucas out having fun, in their element, and then the unexpected. I was definitely more aware of my mortality than usual, and I was more aware of the good things in my life that I have to lose.
Courtesy booty call: after passing the roof on P1 of Grandote, you can find a big hex, a small wired bliss cam, a double-length dyneema sling, and 2 bail biners. I won't have time to be down that way for a while... finders keepers.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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May 27, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
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was this anchor failure ? loose rocks, bad protection , bad knot/bolt/hanger etc,...
was this rapping error ? no knot, rapping on one rope instead of two...
was this user error ? Disconnecting personal slings from anchor before running the rope in to rap ring or loosing hand grip on rap device etc
The report is very succinct and I think GDavis did a tremendous job of presenting the facts under what must have been extreme duress.
What is clear:
The victim was attached to the rope the entire time.
He had seen his partner complete the rap.
He was an experienced climber.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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May 28, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
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I have a question.... 60m rope or 70m ????
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
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60m I believe, as we'd climbed on it for hundreds of pitches and I don't remember ever talking about it being a seventy.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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May 28, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
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You don't know??? for sure?!!!!
Might make a bit of difference, when devising a plan to decend.
Just saying.
I spent all 3 days, when we were out climbing, thinking about this and how it went down.
We have all been in dicy rap situations before... ends not on the deck, downclimbing hard face, jumping etc.
I just wish to know... then it can't happen to me.
That is how I look at all mishaps, always have.
sad, tragic.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
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You don't know??? for sure?!!!!
No, I don't. It wasn't my rope, and I have no reason whatsoever to believe that it was a 70 - but I don't speculate. We used that rope almost exclusively on longer routes, almost never rapping off them (tahquitz, the high sierra, tuolumne.... all walk-offs) and usually just belay at the usual belays.
I'm sure if we found ourselves in a situation where the conversation of "do we need a 70m" would come up, Lucas would say "oh well I don't have one." But I don't know 100% for sure. I know 95%. I know that is hard for some to understand, but I would prefer to be honest.
I spent all 3 days, when we were out climbing, thinking about this and how it went down.
I don't fully understand how it happened and I was 20 feet away. There might never be a reason.
I just wish to know... then it can't happen to me.
That is how I look at all mishaps, always have.
Be aware of loose rock nearby when rapping, and if there is some blocks that look funky that your partner might stand on/put his hand on/catch a pulled rope build and anchor and clip in before going off rap. That's what you can do.
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Richard Conner
Mountain climber
Snohomish, WA
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May 29, 2013 - 02:07pm PT
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Hi Greg, Thank you for the transparent write-up. I am sorry for your loss. I have met you a few times with the North County Adventure group and have always found you to be a super nice guy in addition to an exceptional climber. I didn't know Lucas but have also lost too many friends in the mountains over the years. What a tragedy - hang in there.
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westofjess
climber
squamish
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May 29, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
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Thank you for your write up. Sh#t happens.
My deepest condolences.
Having gone through a similar experience lately, I can say this:
- only do what feels right, in the moment. make plans, cancel plans, climb, don't climb...
be good to yourself. Seeing anyone, let alone a friend, die so quickly is a shock to the body mind and soul, isn't it!
My key has been to accept. Accept accept. How it went - accept that. How you responded - accept. How you feel right here on this breath... accept.
Not to go all star trek on you, but resistance truly is futile.
It does sound like you're doing well though. yay.
Hugs!
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