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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 24, 2012 - 12:51am PT
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Crimpergirl writes:
"Exactly Chaz."
Thanks, C.G.
One more thing: Your Fellow Citizen is a good person. You can trust him with a car, an AR, or your kid. Seriously.
This was hammered home the first professional bar fight I was in. I had just turned 21, I had been tending bar for a couple weeks. One night I had to hop the bar to get serious with somebody over something, and we ended up boxing.
While we were boxing, I noticed everybody at the bar standing up to get themselves involved in the boxing too.
I was thinking "ah shit! I'm already busy with this guy, now these all these other guys all want to kick my ass too". Why wouldn't they want to kick my ass? I was the guy who had been charging them $1.50 for fifty cents ( if that ) of booze, over and over again for the last couple of weeks.
But instead, a couple of those guys rushed past me - one shoving me out of the way - to get to the guy I was boxing with, and f*#king flattened the guy!
I tended bar at a bunch of, let's say, less-than-genteel joints for most of the next twenty years, and I saw the same thing happen over and over again. People engaging in momentary violence to secure an on-going peace.
Your fellow citizen - whether armed with an AR ( like the cops ), or not, wants the same things you do. I've seen it demonstrated, over and over again.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 24, 2012 - 01:02am PT
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Why do the cops carry weapons, jghedge?
To assault people?
Or for self defense while in dangerous situations?
Whenever I'm looking for a tool, I always base my decision on what The Pros are using.
For self defense, The Pros say use a Glock, a shotgun, and an AR, apparently.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 24, 2012 - 01:06am PT
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Valley Village, Hedge.
St. Joes is my hospital.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 24, 2012 - 01:07am PT
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I'm in favor of felons and crazy people being denied legal gun possession.
Is that "gun control" ?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 24, 2012 - 01:20am PT
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It's people control.
Guns aren't the problem. Over and over again you've been informed of that, yet you still either play dumb or really are.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Dec 24, 2012 - 01:34am PT
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Say no to guns.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 24, 2012 - 01:34am PT
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Pffft.
Sick people take pills.
If you don't take pills you won't be sick.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 24, 2012 - 01:40am PT
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jghedge vwrites:
"Limiting people's access to guns will control their actions?"
Who would want to control someone else's actions?
Only a control freak would think he can control someone else's actions like that.
You're on the same control totem pole as the Right To Life whackos are on.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 24, 2012 - 01:45am PT
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Chaz, Ron, et al: By virtue of being citizens of the USA, you are all already under significant limitations. One of them being the kinds of weapons that you, or anyone, can own. Those limitations are primarily for public safety, and if anything are much too generous when it comes to firearms. The balance is way out of kilter.
Given the healthcare decision last summer, the election in November, and the likelihood that Obama will be appointing several justices, it would be interesting to see just how your supreme court would handle a new federal gun control statute that sought to restore some balance. Even the so-called strict constructionists would be on the horns of a dilemma.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 24, 2012 - 03:26am PT
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Also bear in mind that while Obama will be officially out of office in 2016, his stature and proven track record as a constitutional scholar will ensure that he's involved in choosing SC nominees for several more decades to come - in fact he could very well end up being a SC justice himself, unless there's some rule against that I'm unaware of
I think Obama was our best choice and Like much about him but geez, once Obama claimed the right to indefinitely detain citizens without due process and even assassinate citizens without due process he lost all claim to have any respect for the constitution.
He and Bush share the distinction of two presidents who have done the most on the road to disrespecting the constitution in my mind
Peace
Karl
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Dec 24, 2012 - 11:02am PT
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All I know is reading the "rap" sheet (violence, corruption, vigilantism, etc) of some of those NRA board members make the Weathermen, Symbionese Liberation Army, IRA, Red Brigade, and other fascists groups, look like beginners.
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 24, 2012 - 11:31am PT
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Actually, other presidents have done things that are even more outrageously illegal and/or unconstitutional.
Obviously Nixon comes to mind.
But Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and Adams championed the Alien and Sedition Acts.
Not to give Obama a pass, but he isn't much different from other Presidents.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 24, 2012 - 11:40am PT
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Actually, other presidents have done things that are even more outrageously illegal and/or unconstitutional.
Obviously Nixon comes to mind.
There's a difference between doing something Illegal and having an unconstitutional policy that your enshrine forever. I might grant you Nixon, but probably not for the reasons you think. He was part of this horrible trend of going to war without declaring war by congress as required by the constitution by calling it a "police action." Nixon didn't get us into Viet Nam through so he is really a secondary criminal, like Obama, in that regard. He didn't start anything as bad as Bush started, he just used it and made it normal
But Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and Adams championed the Alien and Sedition Acts.
Not to give Obama a pass, but he isn't much different from other Presidents.
yup, you practically have to back to Lincoln to get as unconstitutional as Bush and I blame Obama for using Bush's excess and making it normal
Peace
Karl
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Dec 24, 2012 - 11:41am PT
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Karl and Dirtbag are correct. It seems a longstanding policy that presidents can get such legislation passed. Though I am surprised that Obama, who I like (but didn't vote for in 2008), being a so-called constitutional lawyer/expert, would continue and perhaps indeed make such legislation even more draconian.
I think that by continuing policies that Dubya/Cheney instigated, in my mind it puts a huge blot on Obama as a president. In fact, policies that have been in place, for the most part, at least since WW2. I won't go into Manifest Destiny or anything, or what the country's founders thought were good policies, ie guns for militias, because those were the times, right or wrong (ie native American "genocide" and forced renewal). And slavery.
But the US has been living, and is a global power, in the 20th and 21st centuries, and should be showing more moral courage. To say the least. But politicians suck on the teat of corporations and big business.
And of course, the NRA is one of the most powerful lobby groups in the States.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 24, 2012 - 11:55am PT
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Many people see terrorism as "war" against a foreign enemy - I see it simply as crime. But war is more profitable than law enforcement...
Well said and worth repeating.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Dec 24, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
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From the Minsistry of Dumbf*#kery:
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 24, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
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Well Dr Lecter don't hold back, tell us what you really think. LOL!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 24, 2012 - 12:11pm PT
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"...once Obama claimed the right to indefinitely detain citizens without due process and even assassinate citizens without due process..."
A few Al-Qaeda activists who were in active cells, who got capped along with the other terrorists
Dude, Obama called a second strike on the 16 year old US citizen KID of that US citizen Cleric that they drone-killed. (and even the cleric hadn't been proved of anything besides being a cheerleader for terrorism, (bad, but how different that folks here cheerleading for bombing Iran?)
and plus, saying "but Obama is only using this blatantly unconstitutional power wisely and sparingly" is the biggest BS ever. Obama may even BE wise and sparing but, believe it or not, we could even get Jeb Bush in the white house in 2016 (or some worse Dumbf^&k eventually) and they are likely to abuse the power that we fail to question now
Peace
Karl
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Dec 24, 2012 - 12:29pm PT
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Jeb Bush? Actually, as I understand it, the GOP wanted him to run in 2000, but Karl Rove stepped in, and... we know what happened there.
Again, look at some of the history of the NRA board members, not so pretty in my eyes.
As for me, I have no solutions on violence in schools. Throwing more guns at the problem doesn't seem logical, considering the past history.
Will education and social change work? I don't know, I just grieve for 20 dead children and six adults, as much as I imagine people in Palestine, Israel, Afghanistan, African conflicts and so on grieve for innocent (young) victims.
But from what I read, and maybe it is just my perspective, the NRA is being run by a bunch of nutters nowadays.
There must be some sort of solution. Rational, logical minds are needed not knee-jerks like Wayne LaPierre.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 24, 2012 - 12:39pm PT
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Hedge you are right on! But reading the above it is clear that the biggest boobs on StupidTorpor are here and not on Anastasia's thread.
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