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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 17, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
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Thanks, Douglas, for your post.
I think that many non-Christians overlook the rather unique issues that being both a Christian and a climber sometimes raise. Other Christian climbers have started threads like this, only to give up in the face of criticism to the effect that "why do we need a thread like this here. This is a climbers' forum, not a Christians' forum."
Life can be perplexing when we're guided to offer our lives as living sacrifices. Paul didn't differentiate between our "religious" life and our "secular" life. In fact, I see a heresy to which the contemporary popular Christian church seems particularly prone, that I will call a utilitarianism. Under this view, the only thing that matters is what I am doing outwardly to promote the Kingdom. If, for example, I spend a couple of hours practicing a Beethoven piano sonata for the artistic pleasure it gives, that's secular, worldly, and bad. If, in contrast, I spend a couple of hours practicing insipid praise songs for church, that's Godly Kingdom work.
Baloney! If God has our whole lives, then everything we do is sacred, not secular. That goes for climbing, too. If I try to be an excellent climber, that pursuit of excellence is one way that I praise God, and make my life a living sacrifice. J.S. Bach believed that everything he wrote was for the glory of God, whether it was the St. Matthew Passion or the Coffee Cantata. As a climber and a human being, I feel the same way about everything I try to do.
John
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 17, 2012 - 04:07pm PT
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If, in contrast, I spend a couple of hours practicing insipid praise songs for church, that's Godly Kingdom work.
theological questions aside, the folks who believe that are clearly going to the wrong church
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Sam E
Boulder climber
Malibu
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Aug 17, 2012 - 04:21pm PT
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I fell in love with a christian girl. Read the bible to understand her world. She broke it of with a bible passage about being evenly yoked (thanks a lot Corinthians). Now Jesus is my homeboy.
The Smithsonian put out a very informative six part miniseries titled Decoding Christianity.
I recommend it to believers and non believers alike.
I like to think of the different religions as languages. I'm multilingual.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 17, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
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Good retort, klk. I did not mean to imply that all (or even most) praise songs are inherently insipid, any more than more traditional hymns are. There are a great many that I love both to sing and, sometimes, simply to listen to. I do, however, still find amusement in the joke about the prototypical praise song: one word, two notes and three hours.
John
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 17, 2012 - 04:38pm PT
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the folks who believe that are clearly going to the wrong church
the folks whom john describes-- those who believe insipid praise music is godly -- are clearly going to the wrong church.
probably listening to gram parsons do gospel. heh.
sorry, my main contribution to this thread so far has been to post example after example of good gospel or explicitly christian music that will help brother spider and the rest of the pilgrims find their way out of the insipid praise music/emo country wilderness.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 17, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
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personally, I think incantations are just as cool as gospel music
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P.Rob
Social climber
Pacomia, Ca - Y Que?
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Aug 17, 2012 - 04:44pm PT
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Yes, I know these are more important to our mutual survival than is the matter of what an individual believes.
I think you might want to reread this statement and ponder for a moment, I think you will find that it is self contradicting. I am not sure how you can separate them. One’s world view typically effects and drives the inner machine and how we interface with the world at large.
On a different note I understand much of the vitriolic spraying. There is much about how “American Christianity” is molded, modeled and practiced that leaves me shaking my head. As this is about “Christianity” and not a comparative study I resist responding in kind. In fact I find much of this funny, if not tragic. It is also obvious when it comes to preachers this thread has no shortage.
John Wayne is not my hero, nor do I see Pashtun Tribesmen my enemy. I do not believe the sky is falling, though I do know things do fall from the sky. Not all Christians disconnect their intellect at the doors of the sanctuary – here as an example: “Professor Henry F. (Fritz) Schaefer is one of the most distinguished physical scientists in the world”. http://www.leaderu.com/offices/schaefer/
P.S.: locker I have the gift interpretation and I know what Popeye is saying
“ yur …………………….Gonna …………………….Live” Now aint that a surprize
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 17, 2012 - 05:07pm PT
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So are you now saying that Jesus himself would rebuke them folks above in the you toob flick you submitted as not partaking in Godly music?
what? are you talking about the rev. glenn lee? or the del mccoury?
i personally love glenn lee's music. that particular video is of an especially famous praise jam which i why i thought it worth posting despite the obvious poor quality of the tape.
the original post to this thread-- and the thread title-- are a reference to a song by gram parsons: "i like the christian life," recorded by the byrds on their sweethearts of the rodeo album. this thread is partly spun off from still another thread in which we were energetically debating the merits of parsons as a songwriter and performer. i personally am not a fan of the way that parsons sweetened a lot of honky tonk and gospel music by flattening out the rhythms and getting rid of the southern or texan or afro-american accents in the singing voices. and since this thread was turning (predictably) nasty, i've been posting examples of "gospel" music that i find a helluva lot better than the title song in the op. if nothing else, it ought to provide a bit of uplift in the soundtrack. and it lets me go to the happy place for a few minutes in between my stints of file transferring and other grim bureaucratic tasks im doing online this week.
yr question-- would god or jesus approve of this or that particular kind of music --is actually relevant. but it would take at least another post to respond.
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P.Rob
Social climber
Pacomia, Ca - Y Que?
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Aug 17, 2012 - 05:24pm PT
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When it comes to music this is the requirment
Psalm 100:1-2
King James Version (KJV)
Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands. Serve the Lord with gladness: come before his presence with singing
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 17, 2012 - 05:40pm PT
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Psalms, Issaiah, and Exodus are usually the references, although there a plenty throughout the Old Testament. Not so many in the New.
"Trumpet" is the most common image.
Psalm 150:3 and Isaiah 58:1 were the ones I heard most as a kid.
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P.Rob
Social climber
Pacomia, Ca - Y Que?
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Aug 17, 2012 - 05:59pm PT
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Colossians 3:16
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you,with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 17, 2012 - 06:07pm PT
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thanks for the link, tobia. i tried to put it up earlier but it wouldn't embed so i gave up.
one thing to be said in parsons's favor was his affection for the louvin brothers: christian life, cash, satan's jewel crown.
he helped to make that stuff accessible to folks more familiar with judy collins. his covers were almost always smoother, sweeter, and more pop than the originals.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 17, 2012 - 07:00pm PT
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Cool post, Klimmer. I immediately noticed that you know the Lord by some of his ancient Hebrew names like Adonai and Elohim and indeed even Jeshua.
My favourite name for God is Yahweh, which is a loose anglicization of the ancient Hebrew name which curiously lacks in vowels: YHWH meaning "I am who I am"
I also know him as Abba.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 17, 2012 - 07:20pm PT
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Not sure which version klk finds contemptible, maybe both(?)
tobia, i don't like either version as well as like the original. not that it was ever a favorite louvin brothers song of mine anyway. the caveat is that i love clarence white's playing. not just for the virtuosity but also because it's pretty much most of the rhythmic interest on the entire album.
(both versions--although the caveat is that i have them only on cd-- not sure if the archive release was ever done on vinyl.)
i dont like the top-fortying of the vocals. taking the redneck twang out of honky tonk and gospel made it a lot more accessible to mainline audiences and to young white audiences, especially north of the mason-dixon or wealthy enough -- like gram --to speak or sing in "standard english." for those audiences that was a good thing, because the louvin brothers sounded like white trash. of course, those folks all think i sounded like white trash, too.
so as much as i appreciate the best of gp's singing (for my money, that'd be his duet with emmy on love hurts), each time he opened his mouth on vinyl he sounded like a rich kid to me.
and this isn't thread drift, because along with "lift up your voice like a trumpet" i learned that "it's easier for a fat man to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven."
heh
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Aug 17, 2012 - 07:29pm PT
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This all started w/ the Kennedys;....smoking pot in the White House, sleeping w/movie stars, driving drunk off of bridges;...that's what we get for putting an Irish Catholic in the White House....(Am I on the right thread......).....
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 17, 2012 - 07:41pm PT
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tobia, sorry, i didnt see yr alan jackson post.
jackson has always been a good performer, has a good voice and keeps a super competent band. things were so grim on the airwaves by the late eighties-- alan jackson or clint black songs were like little oases. those two were about as far as the programmers were willing to go, aside from an occasional dwight yoakum number.
i never heard a "country" station play dwight and kd's cover of the parsons-hillman gospel tune--
possibly because of the fear of lesbians
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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