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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Nov 30, 2011 - 02:09pm PT
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Not everyone climbs for a simple thrill.
As far as why many of us have aprehension regarding rappelling, think of it this way. When climbing you strive for 4 points of contact, both feet and both hands. When rapelling, you really only have one primary point of contact, your break hand.
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jstan
climber
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Nov 30, 2011 - 02:18pm PT
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Redundancy is built into all but one part of climbing, that part being the rappel. Seems to me those wanting a thrill out of climbing are well advised to keep this in mind. As accident history testifies, rappelling involves more than apparent risk.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Nov 30, 2011 - 02:23pm PT
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As far as why many of us have aprehension regarding rappelling, think of it this way. When climbing you strive for 4 points of contact, both feet and both hands. When rapelling, you really only have one primary point of contact, your break hand
This concept seems strange to me. Most climbers will get on a top roped single pitch route and let the belayer lower them without so much worry. Then when rapping, everyone seems to get all freaked out about backups and four points of contact. As if the belayer isn't your only real point of contact if you are hang dogging, getting lowered, or happen to actually fall on a hard route.
And no one strives for 4 points of contact unless they are not actually climbing.
Dave
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Nov 30, 2011 - 02:35pm PT
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I've survived many epic descents in the mountains with difficult rappelling, but, one thing for sure, I NEVER rap when there is an easy walk off.
This comment by Jim is IMHO the most sane statement made here lately. Enjoy that easy walkoff, you've earned it, but even then, be vigilant, walkoffs can get ya when your guard is down.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 30, 2011 - 04:29pm PT
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Here's a vigilance issue I don't think we've covered yet...
Getting hair and/or clothing stuck in a rap device is no joke, and can lead to very serious consequences. Years ago, a climber cut their harness trying to escape from caught clothing and died from the resulting fall. Even if not fatal, such incidents can provide quite an epic, with painful results for hair and torn fabric for clothing. If the climber doesn't know how to unweight the rap device, they will be in serious trouble.
The modern trend of extending the rap device to make room for an autoblock underneath tends to put the device at head level, making hair an easy target. Your head will be pulled up against the device, and if it is hot you'll get some burns as well. The autoblock will allow you to let go of the brake strand, but will not unweight the rap device. You won't be able to move down the rope, and will have to engineer your escape with your hear pinned to a burning hot device. If the rappel is part of an ongoing epic (storm, darkness, injury, etc.) then getting stuck will compound an already bad situation.
Before rapping, make sure all clothing is securely tucked in and your hair, if long, is pulled back and tied or else safely tucked away in a hat.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Nov 30, 2011 - 04:38pm PT
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YES!! Thank you for bringing that up sir rgold!
I've had long hair since I started climbing. Every time some climber sees my hair, they tell me horror stories of hair related accidents. Thus, I do try to 'be vigilant'...but of course, I had to learn the hard way!
Luckily, my hair is long enough that in the 10+ times (and surely many more) I've gotten my hair caught in my device, the problematic area was still at least 2 feet away from my face so I had a lot of slack to get myself out of my bind (hehehe).
Guess there's something to be said for having it long enough for some...play?
HAHAHAHA
Cheers!
LS
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AE
climber
Boulder, CO
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Nov 30, 2011 - 04:50pm PT
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Excellent topic:
* Cheap nuts are not in vogue, but when forced to rap and leave gear, pricey cams are both too dear to leave more than one per anchor (!) and yet often not as easy to discern between truly bomber and only so-so.
I used to carry a selection of the simplest Clog nuts, tapered on just two sides with a single hole, on a 1" over the shoulder sling that served multiple uses. On the first ascent of "Necrophilia" in RMNP, Dakers had roughly thought through his climb, but no so much the descent; traversing the flank of Thatchtop in a blizzard, at dusk, we ran out of ledges and so picked a steep snow chute to go down. It became a narrow chimney, and we were forced to scrabble in the small walls covered with snow. I eventually found a shallow groove a foot long, and barely deep enough to seat the smallest 1/2" Clog nut. I whacked it a few times with my ice ax, spit on it, and gave the anchor a token ice ax belay in loose snow as Dakers rapped into the gloom; I stressed how shitty the nut was, demanding that he stop at the very first chance to get a better anchor in, then he disappeared.
One rope doubled only gave him 75 feet to work with, but minutes passed, then at least 1/2 an hour or more before the rope went slack and he was off. I then had to leave the illusory security of my half-buried stance to lower off the nut so bad I could see it right at the surface, in the dark and snow. I've never rappelled so delicately, slowly foot by foot; soon it was overhanging, and at last I was even with him, standing neatly under one chockstone and standing on another with a solid anchor ready. I didn't get why it took so long - turned out, he misjudged in the gloom, thought the ropes reached the snow below, and when he realized they didn't, he had chimneyed 30 feet or so back UP to this perfect stance, taking up the slack as he climbed!
The thought of him slipping, and shock-loading me and the anchor would have put me into a frenzy had I not been so exhausted, but he and I shared no further alpine adventures afterward.
 I recall that when using 2 different dia. ropes, the thinner stretches more, which initiates a weighted sawing action through sling anchors, but I can't clearly visualize which way that works, and so which rope is the proper one to have in the slings. Any helpful clarification here?
-Almost forgot, the Paul Sibley trick of yanking your buddy's tie-in. It's not a joke at all, but a quick check that may reveal a shortcoming in the system that visual inspection alone may miss.
As a member of the smallish climbing community, remember how to swallow your pride, if necessary, and politely offer advice/ suggestions if you witness someone's mistake or accident-to-be. Try to come across as a concerned equal, not a self-righteous blowhard, don't sweat your ego if they dislike you or resent your intrusion - be content knowing you may have saved a life.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 30, 2011 - 05:05pm PT
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Most climbers will get on a top roped single pitch route and let the belayer lower them without so much worry.
I've never been comfortable with being lowered, indoors or out, and almost always keep a hand on or near the rope, especially at the start. And I'm careful to ensure that there are clear two-way communications, even if the volume causes others to frown.
You can even lower yourself hand over hand, with a backup belay.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2011 - 05:09pm PT
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Being lowered, especially by someone I don't know well, is the most frightening aspect of climbing for me. It is virtually the only time when I have absolutely no control. Don't get blase about being lowered, make sure the lowerer knows what they are doing and knows what YOU are doing.
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Anxious Melancholy
Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
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Nov 30, 2011 - 05:37pm PT
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here's some rap anchors from my trip last weekend down Death Valley's Bad Canyon:
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Nov 30, 2011 - 06:49pm PT
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I've had long hair since I started climbing. Every time some climber sees my hair, they tell me horror stories of hair related accidents. Thus, I do try to 'be vigilant'...but of course, I had to learn the hard way! In the climbing dept of my REI about 8 months ago. A woman with LONG hair was buying a rappel device, an ATC as I recall. The female REI employee was giving her the basic idea of how it works. The buyer mentioned she was going to use it for canyoneering. After the employee departed I mentioned to the woman the possibility of her LONG hair getting caught in the rapp device. Needless to say she was surprised!
I suggested she be sure her hair was tucked neatly down the back of her shirt before she rapped.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Nov 30, 2011 - 08:44pm PT
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Just saw that Santa video on CNN.com and thought it was pretty darn funny! But on a serious note, it really does suck when you get your real beard caught in an ATC while cleaning a new route on rappel and a bunch of hair gets ripped out. It hurts like hell! But you learn pretty quickly to not let it happen again…
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steve0we
Big Wall climber
San Antonio, TX
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First off, this is a great read! Thanks Matt M for posting this on Facebook for us to check out with the bad weather outside. I have had to rappel a few times with POOR at best conditions and have another option I want to run by you guys...
being the 215LB big bones guy, I rap first and as I go down the double rope, I clip gear(on one side of the double rope) in spots that I can as I rap. My logic is that if the main anchor fails, I have backed it up multiple times. The last person rappelling cleans the gear as he comes down. 3 or 4 well placed pieces can easily be retrieved by the last person and it provides safety to the entire group.
Thoughts?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I've done that once or twice, e.g. once when some bolts on a climb at Squamish broke. It's a last resort tactic. You need to start placing gear as soon as you start rappelling, so that if the main anchor fails, there's less stress on the substitutes, and the other climbers don't fall as far when they're pulled off. Pretty messy scenario, but maybe better than no anchor at all.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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I've lost track of the number of highly experienced climbers I know of personally who have had serious and, in some cases, fatal rappelling accidents in the last three years or so. I think it is somewhere between 5 and 10.
In most aspects of climbing, experience contributes to safety, but I've come to believe that the opposite is true when it comes to rappelling: the more raps you have in your career, the more likely you are to have a rappelling accident. The fact that the activity itself is so routine, combined with a very high price for any type of mental lapse, seems to be the explanation.
By and large, the accidents involve rapping off the end of the ropes, although last October the British climber Ben Wintringham, a guy with 50 years of experience and hundreds of new routes all over the world, was killed in Morocco when his rap anchor failed. In many cases, but not all, the ropes were uneven.
I must say that the answer would seem to be knotting the ends of the ropes. A lot of us don't do this routinely because to the potential for getting thrown ropes hung up somewhere, but I am starting to wonder if the arguments are realistic given the accident rate.
It is interesting that the autoblock rappel back-up, a solution to a problem of loss of control that just about never happens, is so widely accepted, whereas knotting the rope ends is far less common. This is just one of several instances in climbing when the human perception of risk is almost entirely unrelated to the actual risks in the situation.
Of course, you won't rap off the ends of the rope if you are constantly looking at the rope to see where those ends are, and surely the message of these accumulated tragedies is that if we aren't going to knot the ends, then we certainly need to pay a hell of a lot more attention to where those ends are, every time, all the time. In view of the number of accidents involving uneven strands, this means being sure we have spotted both ends and are not making assumptions based an observation of only one strand.
I'm beginning to think about the first person down rapping with the ends of the rope clipped to their harness, which guarantees that they know exactly where those ends are and makes it impossible for the ends to be uneven without the condition announcing itself. This doesn't save any time, but avoids the hanging problems that may happen with knotted ends, and might even save time devoted to unsnarling and rethrowing ropes that have piled up somewhere on the rap route.
One drawback is that you can't tell if your ropes reach the intended target, but you often can't tell that even when the ropes are thrown. A second drawback, perhaps more serious, is that all the twists created by the rap device will be trapped. Of course, one could in this case stop and dump the ends and then pull them back up and re-clip, but this is beginning to sound too time-consuming.
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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Thanks, Rich.
"Food for thought" really is an understatement of what your last post
provides.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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It is interesting that the autoblock rappel back-up, a solution to a problem of loss of control that just about never happens, is so widely accepted, whereas knotting the rope ends is far less common. This is just one of several instances in climbing when the human perception of risk is almost entirely unrelated to the actual risks in the situation. Agreed. I don't always use the autoblock or knotted ends.
But I seldom use the autoblock WITHOUT knotting the ends. If I'm concerned about my safety, I knot the ends. The only time I've experienced a serious rapp rope snag, it was retrieving after the knots had been taken out.
I use the autoblock if I anticipate needing to stop, for instance to free snarled ropes or if I can't see the next stance. I don't assume the autoblock will stop me from going off the ends!
I see a lot of people rappelling fast, as if they're Special Forces guys coming out of a chopper. To my mind this is a careless attitude and adds unnecessary risk. I want to be in control and watching what's happening all the way down. As someone said earlier, a rappel failure is almost always a Very Bad Thing.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
Asgard or bust
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Dec 18, 2011 - 11:03pm PT
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Hope I didn't scare you too much at the City, Jim. I try to do a smooth lower, mostly. I understand the feeling.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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May 10, 2012 - 07:43am PT
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For all the beards caught in rappel set-ups, ouch!
I learned about the weight-on-the-rope thing, and it is something I just naturally worked out for myself, but nice to know it's a recognizable part of the techniques used in safe rappelling. As in lots of things related to climbing safety, it boils down to paying attention and practice.
Pay attention, class. Do your homework.
And when you are out long past the planned trip time, look out for each other. It is when you are most vulnerable.
I woke up thinking about the Bachmann Knot. It is a prussik used to back up rappels and jumar set-ups. Its most desirable aspect is the speed with which it is possible to loosen the knot. It has shown to be an effective, twist-preventing thingamajug, if one practices...
Wikipedia article (very basic).
or www.ehow.comvideo_4468129_tie_bachmann_knot.html
It never hurts to repeat:
Pay attention on climbs and on descents equally.
Do your homework and practice not rappelling.
It's the easiest way to be safe you will ever find.
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