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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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Sep 22, 2011 - 10:53am PT
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OhhK.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Sep 22, 2011 - 11:29am PT
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Tastes like chicken
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Sep 22, 2011 - 11:39am PT
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pretty ironic...that thinking out of the box advice
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 22, 2011 - 11:55am PT
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living vicariously through overpaid "pro" athletes running an animal skin up and down astroturf = ghey.
Yea, well I always figured sports in general and football in particular was vicarious warfare.
Paying a few hundred athletes hundreds of millions of dollars to slam into each other seems to me to be less socially devastating than the real thing...
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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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Sep 22, 2011 - 12:14pm PT
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+1, DMT
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Sep 22, 2011 - 12:16pm PT
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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Sep 22, 2011 - 03:25pm PT
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My daughter won't suffer from the effects of racism because of what she does or does not do.
I'm not a white person telling black people that they should take responsibility for their actions - that their condition is their own fault. I'm not a black person telling white people that their condition is white people's fault. I'm a white person saying that we white people should take responsibility for our actions.
What we're saying we have here is a thread about how animal cruelty makes us sick, and another thread about how hate crimes make us sick.
But I don't think that's really what we have. We have a thread about how a black person, Michael Vick, makes us sick, and shouldn't be allowed to make a living, and another thread about how a hate crime committed by an inbred person of color against a white person makes us sick - and then we spin them in a way that makes us comfortable.
DMT - huh? Bite on what? I'm just answering the question that you asked me.
Skipt - thanks for your kind words - I hope to get to a point where I can appreciate that more fully.
Cragman - thanks for your empathy for all of us.
non-bump edit
Sorry DMT - I was trying to answer your first question - how not discussing race in this context is part of the problem - in my previous post. I appreciate that maybe you don't see that as a valid reason that it's part of the problem, but it is my answer. Your second question about whether I think some black people give Vick a pass because of his race - I replied Yes DMT I'm sure that's true. I'd be interested to hear your answers to my other questions, but no worries if you've had enough.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Sep 22, 2011 - 04:06pm PT
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Hemingway glorified animal cruelty, is white, and is a great American writer.
Vick glorified animal cruelty, is black, and is a great American footballer and gang banger.
LEB glorified stupidity, is a woman, and is a great American nothing.
Hemingway blew his brains out in a drunken stupor.
Vick and LEB are still alive.
You tell me what's fair. Holy crap!
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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Sep 23, 2011 - 02:18am PT
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Skip – I’m sorry that I included that line and that I offended you – I removed it from my post.
With all due respect, I don’t think that I’m using my daughter as an ideological prop. I think that it’s the other way around – that I’ve come to adopt this ideology in order to help prop my daughter up.
As I’ve tried to empathize with her situation, tried to learn about the issues involved in trans-racial adoption, I’ve come to believe that I’m the one who has a debt to her and black Americans – that the reason that I have the privilege of raising my child, and her birth parents don’t, and that she’s left struggling to establish her racial identity, is largely the result of race. No, I didn't start out with that perspective.
But I’m trying to do the right thing for her, to the best of my ability. At this point, I feel like I need to speak up about situations that seem to me to be racially insensitive or destructive. I feel compelled to engage in this conversation for that reason.
Thanks for sharing your perspective – it encourages me to hear what you said. But I’m the parent of a trans-racially adopted black child - your situation may be somewhat different than mine. The information that I get from trans-racial adult adoptees, and experts in the field, is not as encouraging. I hope in time to learn how to draw that line more accurately.
As you say, racism still does need to be overcome by black people, and I hope that we all can work towards that goal.
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Homer
Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
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Sep 23, 2011 - 02:19am PT
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There’s a bumper sticker that’s popular here:
I like dogs and I vote.
but all I can see is the white privilege that allows us to spend our political capital that way. It seems like we would have bigger problems, but we don’t.
you find racial implications where no one else seems to have done so
If you can truly believe that no one else in our society has found racial implications in the Michael Vick issue, what does that say about you, and about the perspective with which you chose to engage in this conversation? I invite you to consider that other people in our society do find racial implications in the Michael Vick issue, and that they are mostly black, and mostly absent from this conversation. How will you choose to change your perspective to include that information?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2011 - 06:54am PT
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Just think how many marriges would be saved if people loved their people the same way they love their dog...
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Sep 23, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 23, 2011 - 01:00pm PT
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You are the one harping on his race.
I don't think he is harping. I think that he is confronting real issues in his life. How else will he learn if he doesn't speak up?
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Sep 23, 2011 - 01:15pm PT
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Vick is a sociopath, a highly paid one at that. If he hadn't been busted torturing dogs for his amusement, he would still be doing it. yeah he's sorry, he's sorry, whatever..he's sorry he got caught. that's all. white, black doesn't mean sh#t in this context. the dude is warped, and it wouldn't matter if his skin was green and purple. not everything boils down to race.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 23, 2011 - 01:54pm PT
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Just think how many marriges would be saved if people loved their people the same way they love their dog...
LOL, I think dogs have that unconditional love thing more finely honed than people...
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Sep 23, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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Just think how many marriges would be saved if people loved their people the same way they love their dog...
I tried putting a collar on my wife and yanking on it every time she screwed up, but rather than improve her behavior she just beat the crap out of me and withheld sex...
And I would not try loving your dog the way you love your wife. Most states have laws against that.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Sep 23, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
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Dog. It's what's for dinner.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Sep 23, 2011 - 02:41pm PT
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You were doing it wrong.
DMT
She says that a lot...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2011 - 02:44pm PT
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People seem to unconditionaly love their pets yet treat their humans like sh#t. How many times has your GF or wife gone up a complete strangers dog and given it more and better attentin than she gives you that day? " Ohh, look how cute you are, What a nice doggy you are, oh I wish I could take you home...." Some of that same emotion sent in the diretion of your human significant other goes a heck of a long way.
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