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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Apr 18, 2011 - 11:56pm PT
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I thought of that too, Mighty Hiker, but it doesn't explain this:
Scott Darsney, Greg’s climbing partner on K2, confirms
that Mortenson had never been to the Himalaya or Karakoram
before going to K2.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:01am PT
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If anyone is interested in checking facts about Mortenson's climbs in the Himalaya,
the source to check is not the AAC but Liz Hawley in Kathmandu.
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sempervirens
climber
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:06am PT
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A 90-page article to refute GM's claims. Why? I can't understand why Krakauer would want to do it. He has to know this could not only stop any good work GM is doing but also ruin his life. JK are you on this forum? Tell us why you're doing this.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:07am PT
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If we nuke Pakistan, will this problem go away? The Indians would be happy.
I'm just sayin'....
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:07am PT
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yeah, the krakauer article is pretty grim reading. it seems that important sections of both books were fabricated.
the korphe story seems less important-- i wouldn't care too much what year he went to korphe --
but the accusation of kidnapping is really serious and appears to be entirely fabricated. worse, the folks implicated in that kidnapping are identifiable and not happy with the charges. mansour appeared pretty credible in his cnn interview, and he's apparently well known in the international policy community. and there's at least a bit of textual evidence that also suggests the kidnapping story was pure fiction. polishing the bit about how he got started would be fairly forgivable, but false accusations of major crimes aren't going to be easy to shrug off.
so far as the charity goes, the IRS is going to be all over it. multiple resignations by principals all involving the same charges, no accounting, legal advice that the practices were violating IRS code, etc.
the whole thing is over. what a cluster.
edit @sempervirens: are you kidding? did you read the piece? all it did was accelerate the explosion. no charitable organization that size and that high-profile can operate for very long the way mortenson was running the thing. as far as krakauer's motivations, my inference after reading the piece is that he felt personally betrayed by mortenson. he dropped 70k of his own cash and put his own credibility on the line in very public ways.
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sempervirens
climber
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:42am PT
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Hi Klk, no I've yet to read the Krakauer 90 pages, but certainly will. I can understand Krakauer feeling burned. But is that enough to want to bring GM down, all the way down to nothing. He won't get the $75K back. Are you saying Krakauer is trying to save his own reputation? You haven't really explained the motivation. Allright I'll read the 90 pages and get back.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:44am PT
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From the Christian Science Monitor:
There are also many people who say they’ve been positively affected by CAI’s work.
Monitor reporters traveling last summer through Badakhshan Province in Afghanistan have noticed several schools constructed by CAI. One large, freshly built girls’ high school sat on a hill overlooking the bleak town of Ishkashim on the mountainous border with Tajikistan.
The school was not in session at the time. However, interviews with a few local teachers revealed respect for “Mister Greg.” The teachers expressed gratitude for the new school. While they said they wished they had more school supplies, they were hopeful that CAI would be following through on promises to send more soon.
Ruhullah Hamid, spokesman for Badakhshan’s Education Department, says that he’s unaware of any corruption or misrepresentation of CAI’s projects in his province. He says that CAI constructed at least 12 schools in the province in addition to providing computers. With about 400 of the province’s 647 schools lacking a physical structure, Mr. Hamid says CAI’s contributions have been more than welcome.
“We are very happy with these buildings that they made for us,” he says. “I cannot accuse him of being corrupt, because I don’t have any evidence that this institute was corrupt, but if it is true that this institute raised much money and did not spend it correctly, people will be suspicious not just in America, but in all other countries who send money to Afghanistan.”
The Pakistani government conferred the Star of Pakistan, the country's third highest civilian award, on Mortenson and invited him to take tea with President Asif Ali Zardari in 2009. President Zardari’s spokesman, Farhatullah Babar, told the Monitor the government was treating the allegations with caution. "One has to find out the detail because often a number of media reports turn out to be incorrect," he says. "Until one knows what the story really is, one can't move forward."
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2011/0418/Greg-Mortenson-s-Three-Cups-of-Tea-Will-CBS-report-harm-aid-work
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2011 - 12:45am PT
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A 90-page article to refute GM's claims. Why? I can't understand why Krakauer would want to do it. He has to know this could not only stop any good work GM is doing but also ruin his life. JK are you on this forum? Tell us why you're doing this.
I can think of three reasons. One, he personally gave GM $75,000. Two, he builds credibility within the media, thus promoting his own book. And finally, JK knows his criticism in the climbing community will be heavily scrutinized and he wants to be thorough. I don't think his motives are pure, but that doesn't stop him from be right.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 19, 2011 - 12:54am PT
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The charges in the krakauer piece, which was the trigger for the 60 Minutes and CNN reports, aren't exactly "corruption," but rather misrepresentation, amateurism, and incompetence.
Parts of Krakauer's critique of factual errors in the books are a bit pedantic, but two of the major criticisms are really serious and appear really well founded. Mortenson's management of finances was clearly irresponsible and probably in violation of tax code.
That doesn't mean that CAI was a bad idea or didn't do good or even that Mortenson's intentions weren't honorable. All of those things could be true at the same time.
indeed, I suspect that they may well all be true. That's what makes this whole thing so sad-- it doesn't appear to be a simple story of a scam artist or pure self- aggrandizement. But it's a disaster for themountaineering community, a potential problem for other charities or policy folks in the area.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Apr 19, 2011 - 02:32am PT
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I read Three Cups of Deceit.
It's long and attacks Mortenson on many different fronts.
The following lengthy passage sounds like a charge of "corruption" to me--not just amateurism or incompetence.
Quick summary: not only does Mortenson cause CAI to buy Mortenson's books, he has CAI buy retail instead of wholesale because that gives him a higher royalty and better placement on bestseller lists.
Using CAI funds, Mortenson has purchased many tens
of thousands of copies of Three Cups of Tea and Stones into
Schools, which he has subsequently handed out to attendees
at his speaking engagements. A significant number of these
books were charged to CAI’s Pennies for Peace program,
contrary to Mortenson’s frequent assertions that CAI uses
“every penny” of every donation made to Pennies for Peace
to support schools in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Rather than
buy Mortenson's books at wholesale cost from his publisher,
moreover, CAI has paid retail price from commercial outlets
such as Borders, Barnes & Noble, and Amazon. Buying from
retailers allows Mortenson to receive his author’s royalty
for each book given away, and also allows these handouts
to augment his ranking on national bestseller lists. (Had he
ordered the books from his publisher, Mortenson would not
have received a royalty, nor would bestseller lists reflect those
purchases.) According to one of Mortenson’s friends, when he
learned that Elizabeth Gilbert’s Eat, Pray, Love had bumped
Three Cups of Tea from number one down to number two on
the New York Times paperback nonfiction list, “Greg was furious.
He started buying books like crazy, with the CAI credit
card, to try and put Three Cups back on top.”
Why did Krakauer research and write the article (if "article" is even the right word--it's very long)? My guess--it's just a very interesting story that he had some personal knowledge of, and he's a writer.
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sempervirens
climber
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Apr 19, 2011 - 03:06am PT
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Dang. If Jk is telling the truth I'd say GM is done. It's very sad for him, his family, us, the communities he tried to help, the mountaineering community.
Incompetence and deceit are pretty well supported by the article. One might even say mental illness is involved. Is GM a bit of a pathological liar.
So he's a writer and he had to expose the truth. I'd rather know the truth than not know it.
Can the message still hold?. I sure hope so. Building schools is more effective than military occupation. I can imagine the hay making foxx news could make out of this.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 03:15am PT
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In the la times:
Like many people who believes in ‘Education is a right and not privilege’, I have also read both of Greg Mortenson’s books and watched Greg Mortenson - 60 Minutes which was aired on CBS News on April 17, 2011. Mortenson claims that he has educated over 60,000 of young children and mostly girls and built over 170 schools in Karakoram -the north west of Pakistan and the Wakhan valley of Afghanistan near the Russia and China border during the last 17 years.
Mortenson was intelligent enough to select Karakoram, the 2nd highest rocky mountain in the world, located on the Pakistan-Chinese border, beyond which it becomes an ocean of snow, where he envisioned writing his first book ‘Three Cups of Tea’. Being a native of the north west of Pakistan, I visited Karakoram Mountains along with a French Professor. I was amazed at the pride of the tall mountains and the scenic beauty of nature. At the same time, I found that it is harder for foreigners to come here because the government is charging them heavy amount and do not have any plan to encourage mountaineers and tourists to contribute to local economy. Our successive governments are busy investing their energies and money in wars instead of investing in education. Mortenson had selected Wakhan - a majestic alpine valley in the border region of Afghanistan and Tajikistan to educate children, build schools and to write his second book ‘Stones Into Schools’. This valley is located in the Pamir Mountains in Central Asia. Mortenson has selected areas where it was not harder for local and foreign media and researchers to attest such splendid education projects that Mortenson had started.
While reading Mortenson’s both well-written books, I had the view that they are based on fiction, mixed with half truth. He describes the harder geography of the area very beautifully and in a dramatic way. He presents his characters such as Haji Ali, Rasheed, Sarfaraz, Sadbar, and Parveen like Hollywood movies characters to impress his readers . His timely stories contributed to connect his education case of Afghan and Pakistani children with US people easily, because the US led western nations are investing blood of its sons and daughters in Afghanistan and Pakistan augmented by tax-payers’ dollars to bring peace in the region and security to its own people. He is also successful to connect his stories with the defeat of Communist Russia in Afghanistan on the hands of ‘Mujahideeen’, ‘Taliban’, and ‘Warlords’ led by Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, United state and supported by the entire Capitalist world including Communist China. He has beautifully engaged his readers to the anarchic situation in Afghanistan and Pakistan as he refers to the successive presidents and Al-Qaeda leaders to make his storey central to the current global unrest in the mountains of Central Asia.
What did not astonish me at all was that Greg Mortenson received Pakistan’s highest civil award, Sitara-e-Pakistan because leadership in the third world countries are always in search of foreigners to honour them with such awards to do ‘Realpolitik’. It also did not surprise me that he presented his wife and two children - Khyber and Amira; heroes of his work because the North American culture and society functions in an individualist context.
It was the most disturbing factor for me that Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the U.S. Armed Forces was chief guest at one of Mortenson’s school inauguration in Afghanistan. It is also strange that how Mortenson was inducted by the U.S. military to lecture and mentor young officers at the Air Force, Naval and West Point academies to share his philosophy of Afghan and Islamic culture with them while educating top -ranking Pentagon brass like General David Petraeus and Admiral EricLarson.
Being inhabitant of the North West of Pakistan and Afghanistan for over 35 years, it made me sad while reading Mortenson’s story that he was kidnapped by Taliban supporters in Waziristan, where he was held as a prisoner for eight days before his captors released him in a sudden and dramatic mystery with details known only to Mortenson till the 60 Minutes show was aired. The show found that four of the supposed abductors where ordinary Wazir Pashtun from FATA who were promised by Mortenson to build schools in the war-raged Waziristan FATA. One of the alleged was Mansoor Khan Masud, who runs FATA Research Centre, Islamabad and also writes for American Foreign Policy Magazine, who says that Mortenson was their guest. Mortenson has done a historic injustice to fabricate that Pashtuns are warriors and against education which is contrary to their customs such as Melmastia (hospitality.
Despite Mortenson’s successes of fame and fortune, he not only failed himself but other philanthropists as well, that one day an intuitive Steve Kroft of CBS will be able to find the whole truth and set the record straight and do some justice to the Pashtuns and Americans. I commend Mortenson for connecting westerners with Pakistani and Afghan children’s education. I wish he could have done it differently.
Jahan Zeb is Canadian Pashtun and perusing his MA degree in Community Studies. jahanzebca@gmail.com
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 03:17am PT
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Frankly this thread makes me sick! A bunch of pompous blowhard jackwads sitting in the plush comfort of their easy chairs decrying someone who IS making a difference. What have any of you POS complainers done with your lives? Go back to watching American Idol or Dancing with the Stars or what ever useless masturbation that constitutes the "value" of your existence. In other words go blow yourselves!
Actually, when I see such a post, I first ask to see the halo of the poster. That's ok, philo, I'll be happy to compare notes, anytime.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 03:18am PT
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STewart Johnson says:
yep a sixty minute piece on the fuped up bankers and corrupt politics in this country would not fly.
lets go after the little guy, whos done more
good than all the bombs of merica,and whos done more good than all of us put together.
All this proves, is that you don't watch 60 minutes, or you wouldn't make that argument.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 03:24am PT
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Happi says:
According to the Bozeman article, Mortenson was recently diagnosed with a hole in his heart(how poignant.....), and is undergoing a medical procedure THIS WEEK. Is it REALLY THAT hard to believe that he may be unable to launch a damage control campaign at the snap of a finger?
Yes, because that is what one has associates for, in a multi-million dollar a year corporation.
I do NOT find all these accusations damaging, but I know, unfortunately, that most will jump on the "the crook!" bandwagon. Again, I DO see that the sloppy accounting within the organization has created this mess. It's too bad that this wasn't addressed years ago, when Three Cups launched the growth within the organization. But as of now - The story is Spin.
WHERE do you find the evidence for sloppy accounting? So you are willing to throw anyone associate with his organization who does accounting, over the side of the boat, with no evidence, just to save him?
And when they have to hire an expensive PR person to assist in dealing with this problem, people are going to piss and cry about wasted money.
No, what they are going to say is that is clear evidence of wrongdoing when, instead of simply answering questions and giving out straight information, you hire PR firms.
I DO hope, and expect, that a thorough accounting is going to be done by a reputable agency, as a part of the response. It will take some time. And yes, it is likely that people will say "All that money for bribes???" and think it really went into the man's pocket. Because so many love to see a trainwreck of another - so long as it's not themselves! For the xians - "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
You must be pretty pure for all the stones that you are casting.......
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 03:30am PT
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"As has been pointed out, 60 Minutes tried for months to speak with GM"
According to the Bozeman article, GM is quoted as "...."60 Minutes" had spent several months investigating him, but didn't try to contact him until March 30, and only gave him a chance to respond "at the 11th hour." He said Kroft ambushed him with a camera crew at an event in Atlanta where he was speaking to ninth-graders. Mortenson said he declined to give an on-air interview."
March 30th. Not months. And that he declined to give an on-the-spot interview seems ODD to people?
Anyone who is on the "Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh MY!" bandwagon - DO please take a moment to read the Bozeman article, The link is here:
http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/article_4d3125cc-67d7-11e0-b861-001cc4c002e0.html
Happi, I read his various non-answers. So, now your turn. take a minute to watch the 60 minutes segment, and the eyewitness testimony. To me, the tipping point was his characterization of his companions as Taliban, including a picture of a man well known as a learned academic (interviewed on camera)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 03:39am PT
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For the 60 minutes haters, show me your Emmy.
Ratings
Based on ratings, 60 Minutes is the most successful broadcast in U.S. television history
Recognition
Emmy Awards
As of May 2007, 60 Minutes had won a total of 78 Emmy Awards, a record unsurpassed by any primetime show on any network.
Peabody Awards
The show won Peabody Awards for the segments "All in the Family", an investigation into abuses by government and military contractors; "The CIA's Cocaine", which uncovered CIA involvement in drug smuggling; "Friendly Fire", a report on incidents of friendly fire in the Gulf War; and "Duke Rape Suspects Speak Out", the first interviews with the suspects in the 2006 Duke University lacrosse case, and "The Killings in Haditha," an investigation into the killing of Iraqi civilians by U.S. Marines.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 03:40am PT
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Does 60 minutes pay those who go on the show; I expect they do.
They do not. If they did, you can be sure that Greg would have lined up.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 19, 2011 - 03:55am PT
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I think that Jan and Werner hit the nail on the head. Unless you've worked in 3rd world countries, you have no idea how ridiculous it is to hold projects to "western" standards and business practices. I worked extensively in South America and Africa, "showing your appreciation" to the locals was the only way you even had chance of having your project have a chance of coming to fruition.
For damn sure, don't lose your temper, yell at someone and make them lose "face", pushing your entitled Western Weight around. That's when stuff just comes up missing and the only answers to your inquiries about it are shrugged shoulders.
Hmmmm. So while spending $1 million/year (according to GREGS financial filings for children, he pockets $3 million a year, plus at least 10 million from his books? And has the charity pay a couple of million of his "expenses", effectively giving him another 2 million a year?
That's ok with you?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Apr 19, 2011 - 10:40am PT
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No sh#t, KenM.
I thought I was pretty careful NOT to be bashing others in my posts. In fa ct, I have consciously witheld some of my opinions on several aspects of the thread/story because - they are my opinions only, and based on my own intuitions.
But since you post something along the lines of "throw accountants/bookeepers under the bus" I am going to come right out and suggest(not say, suggest) that you seem to be on some sort of vigilante hunt. For ONE thing, GM himself was very likely the book keeper for the start of the thing. For another - IF there are these improprieties that are being claimed, then YES - a book keeper DOES have some responsibility!
I stopped working for companies importing goods from China because I didn't like the way we treated our partners(in name only, for many of these business people, while they treat them like dogs). A book keeper who sees such gross incompetence (as is claimed - I still suggest it IS Spin) cannot, on good faith, continue on. SO...... PERHAPS the book keeper didn't see the situation as you seem to?
And this "let's compare halo's" bullsh#t. Another old saying is "Pride goeth before the fall." Best watch yourself, dude, as you walk this path through life. I think it must be hubris to the nth degree, to imply one's "way" is superior to others. In AA, we say "It is progress, not perfection." It also goes on to say (paraphrase) "So you think you quit alcohol and now all's gold. Get to work on your relationships." And then - it is NEVER over, for once you see "Hey I no longer do such and such, or act, or react, in such and such a way..." there is STILL work to do, on the path of progress. Even the person who considers themself saintly STILL has work to do, if they snap at their spouse when they are under duress....
CLEARLY the CAI and GM need to move forward on the path of progress. I really DO hope that they can survive this storm, and do so. It COULD be the silver lining in the cloud, as it DOES seem that the organization and GM(which have been perhaps too intertwined, from a professional standpoint) have never been able to stop and take a breath. Momentum is a rather strong force.
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