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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 23, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
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When your government becomes corrupt and or othewise truly ineffective then others will step into the void.
Thus how the orginal mafia came to exist. Same in Mexico
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 23, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
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Towns like Ciadad Juarez are now missing half of the population which has been butchered..
Ummm, not.
Juarez has a population of around 1.3 million?
10,000 deaths is way too many, but doesn't quite equal "half."
Any idea what it would take to control a city that size and still bump up the consulate in Benghazi?
Plus, if you haven't noticed, the violence has been on the decline, at least in Juarez.
Ciudad Juárez, notorious for its drug-cartel violence, has lived up to its nickname – “The Murder Capital of the World.” However, the war, which has resulted in over 10,000 deaths, may have finally reached its conclusion.
Ciudad Juárez has been a front for one of the most brutal drug wars in history. Beginning in 2008, the four-year-long war has produced a horrifying number of recorded (with several unrecorded) casualties – 1,623 in 2008; 2,754 in 2009; 3,115 in 2010; 2,086 in 2011 ; and – thus far – 542 casualties in 2012. According to Juarez municipal officials, this past August recorded 34 murders – which is the lowest monthly death toll recorded in five years.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 23, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
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If violence is truly on the decline, and not just being unreported, it is because they've killed
everybody they needed to and the rest are now in abject obeisance.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 23, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
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then why do they flood across the border?
BECAUSE THEIR ECONOMY HAS SUCKED FOR GENERATIONS!!
The flood did not start with drug wars. Jeez how old are you anyway?
Occupying Mexico will NOT stop their economy or government from SUCKING, it will NOT stop our appetite for drugs and it would NOT stop Mexicans from wanting to come to the USA.
An invasion just sucks as an idea, sorry man.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 23, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
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Definitely no point to invading Mexico, or in other words not enough financial incentive.
The USA only goes to war in these modern times if it involves National Security. ie Business
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Interesting map I found online. Sure looks like the Mexican Government is running things with some help.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jan 25, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
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Powerful documentary. Hardcore intractable problems. It seems to be a theme that has played out repeatedly in the course of humanity: brave idealists rising up to make a better world because they've almost got nothing left to lose, and somehow when things get rolling, the wheels start coming off and others with less ideals figure out how to milk the new system and it goes to sh!t.
Maybe there are just not enough people who are resistant to the corrupting influence of power for any organization to scale up to a national (or even state/regional) level. Or the ones who are willing to do whatever it takes to stay in power are not the ones we want to end up in power.
What would be an "engineering" approach to understand the different problems/dynamics and really begin to fix it?
 Reduce the drug demand in USA that creates an incentive and the financial means for organized crime?
What drives drug demand? Poverty? Unemployment? Inability to cope with life stresses? What are the life stresses? Hopeless financial ruin, inability to support a "traditional" life, family disintegration in the wake of financial/work/health pressures... these aren't all, but they are a good chunk
Are we raising children now in a way that they can cope with the realities of the world, face adversity with courage, accept personal responsibility for our circumstances and do what needs to be done to tolerate and improve them without stepping on other people in the process? Or is this a fairytale naive ideal, and the reality is we are in a war for limited resources, too many of us fighting for a charmed life that we can't all have, and all the ills in the world are the side effects of people fighting for the left-over scraps? We take our good life and pray with thanks that we aren't the ones getting screwed somewhere else for it?
How much and how soon this war encroaches on our civilization comes back to the balance between rich and poor, and (I swear I didn't see this coming, didn't mean to make it about USA politics) is why I'm voting for Bernie. He is the only one putting his finger on the core issues at the heart of sustaining a civilization.
You can be a knee-jerk reactionary talking about sealing the borders (as effective as putting a band-aid on an abscess), or you can look deeper at what caused the infection and try to treat that. Everybody does what is within their grasp for their own sanity. But as best as I can ascertain, Bernie's policies would make the most meaningful change in these issues.
Imagine for a moment how much less money would flow into the hands of drug dealers- rich/powerful folks in general- in Mexico, how much less incentive and means they would have to permit/incite atrocious acts, if residents of USA had guaranteed healthcare, free preschool for kids so parents can work, free university for anyone who wanted it. Imagine how much hopelessness that would take away in the USA, how much it would lower demand drugs. Ignoring Mexico for the moment, I wonder if paying for all of that costs the USA more or less than the war on drugs, the prison contracts, and all the losses that individuals incur from drug-related crime? Even if it does cost more to make the better world vision- isn't it worth paying and working toward it to make it happen?
Folks who want to cut off programs like this just don't seem to have enough vision. Or maybe I just am not sufficiently jaded yet to give up hope for civilization. But if you give up on that, life boils down to Mad Max dystopia. It boils down to Cartel Land dystopia. That outcome is not acceptable to me. I'll fight with my intellect for civility before I give up and fight with my body. The fight is about educating people what the end state is of their policy visions, and this is the only hope of us keeping the wheels on, keeping people acting in a manner that leads us to promote general Welfare.
Ha, see how even the word "Welfare" has been coopted into a negative thing for more than half of our country. It flies in the face of the virtue of self-reliance. But the reality is we are all individually affected by the circumstances of others, and we need to think about how to manage these collective circumstances for our selfish sakes! But the doublespeak is a tool that undermines our civilization: "War is peace." "Love is hate." Recognize it and fight it!
Socialism is not evil.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jan 25, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
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Drug wars pfffft, c*#k fight shootouts is where the action is today
Cockfight Turns Into Gunfight: Four Killed In Mexico
Ensenada, Mexico, Jan 25 (EFE).– Four people, including two children, were killed and 15 others wounded in a shooting at a cockfight in Ensenada, a city in the northwestern Mexican state of Baja California, over the weekend, prosecutors said. Several masked gunmen entered the Palenque Poker building looking for a man they were ordered to kill, the Baja California Attorney General’s Office said. About 500 people were attending a cockfight at the establishment when the ...
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jan 25, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
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Nutjob glad you enjoyed.. i liked it when they capture these NUTZ.. as for a GOLDEN border..best bet to show those people were done time for them to get to WORK..
WORK meaning safe Tourism because they can make alot of MONEY build a better country..
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jan 25, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
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Watched Cartel Land a few days ago. Really well done, and lots of material to think about.
When we were in Jalisco in early Jan, we walked past many c*#k fighting farms housed at know drug dealers estates. No fear, but a lot to consider given the rests of their business. I'm sad for MX. There are no easy answers.
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