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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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If you don't feel like carrying a gun, don't carry a gun. See if I care.
I will support your right to choose for yourself.
It'd be nice if you could support the same right of choice for others.
The beautiful thing about a diverse country is not everyone is alike.
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snaps10
Mountain climber
Visalia, CA
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I don't understand. It's not like this is happening on a regular basis. I monitored the NPS channel all weekend and not a single call about guns. Have yet to hear of a killed animal in SEKI, Yosemite, Josh, etc. This is in fact the first shooting I've heard of in a National Park. Heard of a few attacks. Seen one.
You're treating this like the 20% (just my guess) of people legally carrying are off shooting every animal they come across. Your imagination is running wild man. I don't believe anyone said you were afraid of animals. Personally, I'm pretty sure you're afraid of guns. I know, I know, you're "experienced".
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2010 - 10:32pm PT
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Another very droll comment Ron! This thread has generated some real classics!
The reason I don't want other people carrying in the woods relates to people, who have shot in my general direction with occassional shots whistling by my head.
Even if they are not shooting at me it totally kills any opportunity to see any wild game.
Remember, I grew up in one of the most redneck places around. So my experience with gun guys may not be representative of the real total population. I grew up with guys that found it hilarious to shoot at other people for fun. Definately super racist, and mostly not too smart. The rational I got a couple of times is that the shooter was a great shot and there was "no" chance that they would accidently hit you. Besides it's really funny! And you better not argue because the guy had a deer rifle thrown down on you. You don't want to get shot on purpose now do ya?
I'm sure there are smart gun guys, but an intelligence test isn't part of the licensing process. And of course it is the real jerks, shooting near other people carelessly, firing guns in the air right in downtown Albuquerque, etc...
Just such careless shooters have killed a couple of guys here. So, if you think those guys deserve firearms you are just plain wrong.
We had a criminally insane guy in town that killed 5 people in one day, including two cops, with a handgun he had legally obtained. On the news one of the local gunshop owners said the guy had his constitutional rights, and if it meant crazy guys loading up on semi-automatic weapons that was the price of freedom! His money was ust as good as anyone elses was the real point.
What I want to know is why the gun crowd does not ride down on these guys. It sure doesn't make the rest of you look very good.
Climbers have a relatively good record of ostracizing those who were beyond the pale. Gun guys seem to put their biggest nuts on a pedastal. The crazy guys are also really into explosives, I regularly read about locals who had giant stockpiles having been destroyed by the police. Everybody who is so concerned with their loved ones safety, how you gonna protect against your next door neighbors house exploding.
So how about it? Others with my experiences? Why isnt the gun crowd more interested in self policing. Doesn't it bum you out to be grouped together with idiots and nuts?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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If climbers are so good at it why am I still around? LOL
Ah yes, the vilification of "semi-auto" rears its ugly head.
Gives pause to wonder if pontificating on ST produces any productive dialogue or merely serves a therapeutic function for, if you will pardon the expression, venters.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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But not the ventilated.
That being slang for someone who's been killed with an automatic weapon.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Don't give me ideas.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2010 - 11:27pm PT
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"Personally, I'm pretty sure you're afraid of guns. I know, I know, you're "experienced".
Maybe if you had bagged 3 deer, probably 1000 rabbits, and a boatload of doves, ducks and pheasant before you got out of elementary school I would consider you experienced. Our town was so gun nut that we had hunter safety in phys ed.
I hunted on an almost daily basis, my friends family ate all the animals we bagged. I'm just guessing, but I'm sure I fired several thousand rounds in this time period. I'm sure that some gun guys do that before lunch, so no, I am not claiming myself as a paragon of shooting and gun knowledge. But yeah, I certainly consider myself experienced.
So no one willing to address the "character" issues I brought up?
My real bone to pick is knowing that there are going to be bullets flying in our parks and the animals and other visitors are going to be the real losers. Anyone care to put forward a timeline on bullets flying in the valley? Anyone else want to be there when it happens?
I'm not against your "freedoms" I would just like to get those who should not have a gun, well for them to not have one.
And no Ron, I'm not villifying semi-automatic weapons, I'm against total idiots, insane people, etc... owning them.
Why can't the group as a whole self police against these guys? It would be a great public relations tool. Remember this law permitting carry in our parks barely passed, and only by virtue of a hugely expensive lobbying effort by the NRA. If some things happen that are PR disasters that could be repealled. It is better to have the general public on your side.
Edit: I do appreciate guns as art objects, knives too. I always carry a pocketknife, in my job I cut things all the time. My $500 Microtec (Lightfoot LCC, 1st generation titanium bolsters, super groovey carbon fiber) is probably overkill but it is a great art object. It is fun to play with and look at, so I can relate to beautiful machines being fun to have and collect.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Ron, you aren't hyperventilating, are you?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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You know, the next time I go into Grizzly Country or Polar Bear Habitat, I'm gonna bring what I'm trained in and have extensive experience using . . .
M14
M16 w/grenade launcher
M60
Colt 45
50Cal
LAW
Dragon Gun (shoulder mounted wire-guided missile)
and a few Claymore Mines and Grenades just to make sure.
I think I'm set.
Here bear. Over here you cute big bear you. I'm over here, come and get me . . .
(Lol. Hope everyone knows I'm just joking. I love wildlife. But not those who are attempting to eat me.)
But truthfully, if I had to I would take my Wildlife Biologist friend's advice and I would carry what ever they carry, and do whatever measures they know to do. Those guys know the latest in defending against bears. I would follow suit. To not carry a weapon or other equipment that is effective in protecting against bears and attacks, and bears that will potentially and purposefully hunt you, is insane.
I would never, ever want a Timothy Treadwell situation to occur.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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LOL
Can't believe I managed to troll both sides.
i'm having fun again.
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Butoou
Sport climber
Malibu
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The Coe
Hey Ryan, don't ever email me again. For any reason. Or any kind of communication. I don't want to know you or talk to you. If I see you anywhere near me I will assume it it to inflict violence and respond accordingly as if my life is in jeopardy. You won't want to be there, so best just back off and leave me be.
Ta ta all!
Bill
Hmm..this freak could see a wolf walking by calmly
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mottaaa
Trad climber
tucson
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Wow, What he said.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2010 - 09:16am PT
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Allright Rox!
by the way, just how liquered up are you?
In the classic delivery by John Macenro (sp) "The question, Jerk! Answer the question, jerk"!!!!!!
Edit: I notice I am the only one trying to have an intelligent discourse. I get thats outside RJs "comfort zone",
Just remember, I have a bunch of my wolf pals stalking you, you're really gonna need some heat now! LOL
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Heck I pretty much figuer that most people would be better off without guns. In fact if no one except for myself, my family and a few of my closest friends was allowed to have guns that would suit me just fine ;)
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luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
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Jun 10, 2010 - 12:46am PT
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Anyone know what was going on the valley yesterday over by employee housing...I have never seen that many rangers with not only guns drawn but like M16 looking rifles...guys in handcuffs and dudes being questioned...Miami Vice in Yosemite it was...who said climbing was dangerous...I was nervous about my parking spot during that climb...who knows
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 10, 2010 - 12:56am PT
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It was show and tell time .....
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 10, 2010 - 01:04am PT
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Arm the bears! All creatures, large and small, deserve an equal chance.
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luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
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Jun 10, 2010 - 01:10am PT
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ahhh.....thanks Werner
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jun 10, 2010 - 11:12am PT
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According to Professor George C. Frison, "Paleoarchaeologist of the 20th Century," bears and man have been in continuous conflict for all documented time. There is plenty of artifactual eveidence for man-bear struggles going back more than 10,000 years here in North America.
I for one, don't ever intend to become a "bear spoor" in the woods, so I always carry some heat even just out taking a stroll around my ranch.
Consider: I have seen plenty of black bears around, coyotes, badgers, mountain lions, and now....wolves.
"Packing is prudence!"
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jun 10, 2010 - 02:00pm PT
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The oldest documented man-bear interactions actually occurred in Europe before the advent of Homo sapiens. Thus we have found that the Neandertals buried piles of bear skulls in stone lined pits at the mouths of caves with the eyes always looking east, as long as 300,000 years ago. We assume they first killed the bears before burying their heads in this ritualistic act.
Even today, the Ainu people of northern Japan who still hunt bears, raise a bear cub as a pet and then sacrifice it as part of their religious rites.
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