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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Well The Stage is suicide.
A show I thought everyone bought a ticket to. I have been to many a matinee. I figured everyone went to go see Batman, wishing on the inside they were The Joker and it was them ending it in a ball of fire. Doing it in their own way! Then there's Robin, wanting to go down in a blaze of glory.
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John M
climber
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so if someone was attempting to kill your family and you walked in on them and the only way you could stop them was to kill them, you wouldn't? because that would be wrong in your ethics?
just curious man. not trying to start a fight.
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jstan
climber
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Would you cut your food bill by 90%, if this were the result?
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John M
climber
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I didn't ask you what you would do. I asked you what your moral reasoning would be. You stated
For me it is the other way around,
that implies that you believe that there is no moral reason to kill another. So I am asking you to clarify by creating a hypothesis.
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John M
climber
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my opinion is that there are times when it is morally better to kill another person. such as when stopping evil.
numbers in my opinion have little to do with it. Its not morally okay to throw one innocent person under a train to save any number of people. But if killing someone who is about to kill another is the only way to stop that person, then I don't see it as murder. Stopping Hitler by killing the members of his army was not murder.
As for the morality of killing oneself. I wrestle with that all the time. I have a lot of empathy for someone who is in extreme pain and has no viable way out of it. Part of the problem becomes in determining what that point is, of having no more viable options. I know spiritual people who say that God can help one overcome any level of pain. so it is morally wrong to kill oneself for that reason. But I don't have a high level of experience with that, so I don't know.
I guess what I am saying is that I don't have a hard black and white line because there are a lot of variables.
To kill someone because of something like greed, or just because you want to. that is absolutely wrong. but there are cases where I believe killing someone could be okay, such as stopping Hitler. Am I 100 percent on this? nope.. I still wrestle with it.
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WBraun
climber
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Andrzej -- "I am saying that killing myself is my business."
No it isn't.
It's against the law.
Doesn't matter what I say nor what you say.
The law will act.
You are not the owner of your body.
Destroy your gross physical body by suicide and you will remain in your subtle body to suffer even worse.
You now have no physical body to work in nor can you move on.
You have now become a ghost.
You're worse off then ever .....
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Feb 10, 2014 - 12:21am PT
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It looks like both, Buddhists and Christians say it is OK to kill another being under certain circumstances, but it it is forbidden to kill yourself.
For me it is the other way around, but what do I know? I am an atheist.
Here you go thinking with ur scientific- logical mind again. No one said that its OK to kill anything. It isn't logical to kill anything in the quest for continued evolution. Unless its kill or be killed. Killing to eat to stay alive is a social choice, not a moral one.
The definition of Atheist is, one that doesnot believe there's a God.
Do you define urself as one that does not believe in something?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Feb 10, 2014 - 01:12am PT
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Climbers may be more prone, but it would be something like 0.5 - 1.2% of the general population commits suicide while 1.2 - 2.4% of climbers will. To generalize anything to all climbers is really dumb.
The risk is not meaningless. There a many rewards/feelings you may get from climbing, accomplishment, thrills, adventure, satisfaction, challenge, beauty, and much more. Some climbers like danger and thrills (and many mistakenly assume it is an essential part of climbing for everybody), some like little danger and don't lead. Again you can't generalize.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Feb 10, 2014 - 01:54am PT
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^^^Its Cool! I'm drifty too.
Oh there are other "beings" out there. And they to know the name Jesus. Just like the ants do.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Feb 10, 2014 - 02:20am PT
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A little more drifty than you might believe, dude.
But you do not oscillate, so it's a bad simile, he said smiling.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Feb 10, 2014 - 02:39am PT
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^^Funny Moose, Woops! Mouse.
"For everyone that hath an eye, let them see. And everyone who hath an ear, let them hear The Word of God."
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Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 10, 2014 - 03:04am PT
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Talk to a lot of ants, BLUEBLOCR?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 10, 2014 - 06:59am PT
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back on topic for a bit. Everyone i know who has either offed themselfs or tried to has done it over love or lack of love. never heard of anyone doing it because they were a climber. bunch of hogwash INMOP
in the end it is all about love. If you have it you are happy. If you don't life sucks.
sometimes they have pleanty of love and just don't know it because they are blinded in the moment of not haveing the love of the one person they feel they need above all others.....
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Feb 12, 2014 - 08:59am PT
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there is a relativity in perspective
allowed us via our imagination.
reality is stubborn and steadfast.
but the imagination is cunning and creative.
who winds in the end?
for example:
i don't fall off a cliff and die.
my position is net zero; static.
and as i hold that position,
the cliff flies by me on it's free-ascent
up and up and up
and then the ground collides with me.
i don't die.
the ground though is battered and suffers
a blunt trauma.
action-reaction, i reciprocate that impact
and the ripples of eternity resonate across
my frame. my bio-rhythms are no longer
isolated within me, but are now a part of
the greater song.
the wind will sound different, now,
for i've joined the universal solvent,
and sooner or later i'll precipitate
out and reorganize some matter
and probably aspire, inhaling
god, enjoying the high,
and then exulting a coal-miner's daughter.
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
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May 20, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
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Found this and wanted to share.
Filmed March 2014:
Kevin Briggs
"The bridge between suicide and life"
http://www.ted.com/talks/kevin_briggs_the_bridge_between_suicide_and_life
Climbed in the Gunks for the first time this weekend...it was awesome and beautiful, not just in nature, great routes...but in the best company with new friends. I found myself talking more about Dolt than I ever really have, and realized that I've been carrying around pockets of sadness, what ifs, whys, if onlys, I wishes...but tucked away where I won't accidentally reach into them unless I intend to do so. I've created for myself a place where I balance, looking for the good in that which is and was outside of my control.
And on balance, I am at peace, save the occasional delving into that which hurts so deeply that I have no words because they simply don't exist.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Thank you, Rudolph, my new friend, for sharing this (Watts) with me. The right words, at just the right time.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 20, 2014 - 10:32pm PT
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I didn't read the whole thread, just a couple of pages, so this may have been said.
Climbers are a pretty strong community, a tribe as has been said, So when one of us ends their own life the chances that other people in the community knew that person, had met him/her, or knew of them. And with the internet news travels fast. This makes it look more prevalent in our group than others. How many people pay attention when a person who is not a part of such a group falls into depression and makes the same choice?
Most suicides are a terrible event. I've never been prone to depression, so I really can't understand (except perhaps when someone faces a certain drawn out painful death by illness.)
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 20, 2014 - 11:20pm PT
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LOL.....A psychiatrist trying to gain insight into easy targets..pure..
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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May 21, 2014 - 08:16am PT
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Well...
I like Reilly's dark humour on this one. :-)
But I really side with mountaindog: “But my guess regarding gear/protection is that climbers fear injury/suffering more than death.”
I confess. That's my greatest fear. I fear waking up and being so broken up I only could move my eyes or something like that. I rather die. Way rather. Put me to sleep and pull the plug. Never ever let me wake up like that.
All my life, I have stepped on the gas, roamed places where I shouldn't ventured, hiked, scrambled, climbed, loved, played poker and stock markets, mixed with living a very ordinary life. I believe some of us are simply wired that way. It takes all kinds to make up the humankind.
Sure, I've contemplated suicide, but I'm too curious about life. I will die anyway. Sooner or later. So, I will get the dying experience anyway. But there were other experiences I won't get if I commit suicide. There's men to love, children to raise, mountains to climb, seas to swim.
It could be fear therapy through confronting one's fears, or if you're not living on the edge, you take too much space, or genes, or curiosity, or addiction. Addiction to that lightheaded feeling when you made it. When you know it's your skill which kept you alive, and don't make a mistake because then you're dead?
I wouldn't want to be without it. I find "I-would-never-dare-to-do-people" boring. But, they're allowed to their own hazards. Like trip on their own lawn, fall in the pool and drown. Fine with me.
“The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.”
Artur C. Clarke
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 21, 2014 - 08:19am PT
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Climbing makes you feel alive...Suicide prone is a lame cliche...
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sammer
climber
Santa Cruz
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May 22, 2014 - 11:42am PT
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I think it may be quite the opposite. Climbers generally want to live. Climbing makes us feel alive. Climbing gives us something to live for. Climbing makes us feel whole. Climbing gives us a venue to face our fears and challenge ourselves. Climbing gives us control over our fears and encourages us to seek out joy and work for it. Climbing makes us strong physically, mentally, and hopefully emotionally too. It is those who already feel dead or trapped inside who commit suicide.
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