Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 12:21pm PT
|
John wrote: The Senate's bill is really about Democrats trying to live in the Great Society which, as Fattrad pointed out, is the real cause of our spending being out of control. The fact that no Republican supported the bill does not reflect a lack of GOP interest. Rather, it represent a complete inability of the current Democratic leadership to incorporate any ideas or views of their opposition.
That funny that considering from 2000 to 2006 what did Bush do to involve the democrats other than an illegal war based on lies??
John could you please post any written words of your on the direction of the country under Bush during his huge spending spree.
|
|
Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 12:30pm PT
|
Ah Fattrad... the worlds greatest monday morning quarterback of stock picking....heres a nice quote from march 27 , 2008.........Yup the words of a regular financial genius
"Jeremy,
We're not in an economic mess, we are merely reversing an over extension of credit to individuals/companies that had no business obtaining loans in the first place. The people losing homes are those who put no money down or maintained lifestyles by continually taking equity loans on their long held properties. In general the economy is in good shape and the dollar will rally when Europe realizes that they can't keep their rates high.
Disclaimer: This is not an opinion of the McCain campaign.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 12:35pm PT
|
"In general the economy is in good shape and the dollar will rally..."
Sounds like what Obama's been saying.
|
|
Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 12:36pm PT
|
"the Chinese are almost as capitalist as we are"..
not by the definitions that you consistently use in this forum. Fattrad would it kill you to present an honest argument just once.
|
|
John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 12:45pm PT
|
Fattrad would it kill you to present an honest argument just once.
heh heh.. that struck me as funny.
How can you make an honest argument if your precepts are false?
1. All socialism is bad.
2. All capitalism is good.
If republicans keep teaching this, they will never arrive at a true conclusion. They will keep ending up in the ditch. Anyone enjoy our last ditch experience? Barring of course the wealthy that were able to take advantage of an economic downturn, which is the whole point of creating an economic downturn.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 12:45pm PT
|
|
|
Dodo
Trad climber
Spain/UK
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 12:47pm PT
|
Reading this thread makes me despair of Americans, obviously republicans in particular, some of your paranoia about about caring for people less fortunate seems to get mixed up with your paranoia about socialism (communism, not the same thing) grow up America.
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 12:48pm PT
|
"The Senate's bill is really about Democrats trying to live in the Great Society which, as Fattrad pointed out, is the real cause of our spending being out of control."
John, I'll agree with you that the current bill is a true Congressional POS that will satisfy no-one, raise taxes, leave out sufficient cost controls, pander to the insurance industry/big pharma, etc.
But I draw the line at 'the real cause of our spending being out of control'. The deficit gradient we have been on started waaaaay back with Reagan, flattened to some degree under Clinton, then skyrocketed under Shrubco...well before 1/20/09. This bill sure may not help that (contrary to yours and the GOP-controlled media sources, it remains to be seen if it really does become the economic disaster you are foretelling), but really, the GOP doesn't have any leg to stand on in the argument.
Fact is, even if we had a surplus right now, the Repugs would have voted against this or any other kind of healthcare reform...period. It's not part of the GOP ideology, never has, never will be. All of the resistance to the bill was cloaked in stooopid arguments like 'death panels', or the most recent, incredibly ironic argument that it will sap Medicare (which the Repugs would just as soon see die a firey death if it weren't for the fact that it would end their political careers, due to it's overwhelming popularity).
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 12:48pm PT
|
Norton,
Where're the Obama numbers on your little graph?
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 12:54pm PT
|
"If you knew anything about economics or the markets, you'd know that what happens on any administrations watch is for the most part luck."
fattrad, you always write off statistical facts like deficit spending and surplusses in that way. And I always respond, it is what it is.
Can you honestly argue that the spending programs by both the Reagan (defense systems) & Shrubco administrations (Iraq), combined with tax cuts, had no influence on those economic trends?
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 01:00pm PT
|
WAY too early, only 10 months in office to "judge" Obama's spending.
BUT, we DO know how the stock market did under Bush and now Obama.
Suck on this.
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 01:02pm PT
|
"WAY too early, only 10 months in office to "judge" Obama's spending."
Did you hear that, Chaz? Now will you stop asking that question every time Norton posts that graph?
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 01:19pm PT
|
"WAY too early, only 10 months in office to "judge" Obama's spending."
Did you hear that, Chaz? Now will you stop asking that question every time Norton posts that graph?
Can you imagine a well run business saying that it won't "judge" the business's spending over a 10-month period? Why is the US government treated differently?
My objection to the graph is that the terms of a couple of recent US presidents does not give enough data to draw meaningful statistical conclusions.
Criticism of Bush's huge increases in military spending combined with tax cuts for the rich seems obviously justified. Bush was a "traitor" to the notion that Republicans are the party of fiscal conservatives--but the Democrats may be even worse!
|
|
the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 01:57pm PT
|
Here's a defecit graph from Heritage Foundation (which is a lying right wing propaganda organization, notice how they make it look like the red is the start of Ombama's budgets but it's really the last year of Shrub), and it shows some interesting things.
1. Bush's 09 budget (including some contibutions from Obama, mostly the stimulus package which probably saved us from another depression) was an insane increase.
2. Obama will lower the deficit over his 4 years. Not really socialism huh? Or maybe he's just 1/2 as socialist as Bush.
3. 2013 will still be higher than any of Bush's except 2009.
4. The really f*#ked up thing is it starts going UP again from 2014 to 2018. Obama should be trying to balance the budget by then.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Middle Class
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 05:58pm PT
|
President Obama Signs Anti-Rape Law
30 Republicans vote AGAINST the Bill
by BarbinMD
Mon Dec 21, 2009 at 01:20:04 PM PST
Despite objections from 30 Republican Senators, Al Franken's amendment that prohibits government contracts with companies that enable rape has now been signed into law:
The White House Press Office sent out a statement today announcing that President Obama signed the Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2010 into law on Saturday:
H.R. 3326, the "Department of Defense Appropriations Act, 2010," which provides FY 2010 appropriations for Department of Defense (DOD) military programs including funding for Overseas Contingency Operations, and extends various expiring authorities and other non-defense FY 2010 appropriations.
Within the Appropriations Act is Sen. Al Franken’s (D-MN) amendment prohibiting defense contractors from restricting their employees’ abilities to take workplace discrimination, battery, and sexual assault cases to court.dk
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Dec 21, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
|
BANNING US TAX DOLLARS FROM GOING TO COMPANIES THAT DON'T BAN RAPE IS BAD FOR THE ECONOMY
ALSO FASCIST
DOING THE SAME THING FOR ABORTION IS FOLLOWING THE WORD OF GOD
BASICALLY SAVE THE FETUS BUT F*#K THE WOMEN
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!