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Supermama
Social climber
pa
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Sep 26, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
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Dan...is this true for the Hotmail account on a home computer as well?
I had someone stalking me a few years ago and the chief of police was able to get a subpoena to release the phone and cell phone records. The man was caught and convicted thanks to the phone records.
Matt isn't able to do this himself, so shouldn't his next of kin be able to request this? This is an emergency, not someone who decided to go into hiding. Is there any way around this?
Supermama
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Dan Watson
climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Sep 26, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
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If you were being stalked, Supermama, the circumstances were substantially different. That involved a criminal investigation and search warrants of phone records and e-mails accounts can be obtained. According to our District Attorney's Office, there is no legal authority for issuing a search warrant for a missing person investigation. I'm just going by what our DA communicated to our detective.
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Supermama
Social climber
pa
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Sep 26, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
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Dan...Thanks...This is so sad...would Pa authorities have the same answer for a home computer? Is this consistent throughout the country? Should Tiffany and Ron try the Pa authorities? Other than physically searching this is the last hope for any clues as to where Matt went.
Supermama
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 26, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
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Chief Watson, thanks for looking into this!
With respect to the library router records, sometimes states differ in their rules and approaches -- maybe a Pennsylvania DA would have a different take in relation to the missing person search that was opened there?
Regarding Matt's Hotmail account, if the Pennsylvania missing person search doesn't help there as well, QITNL posted a link here to Microsoft's "next of kin" process, which allows for the release of emails to the next of kin of someone who has died or is incapacitated. Though Microsoft has not been very helpful so far, perhaps at this point they could be convinced (by family members or media attention) to apply that process to Matt's account.
Edit: It looks like Supermama and I were thinking along similar lines.
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Sep 26, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
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I am thinking if Bethlehem PA police filed the Missing Person report, and Matt is a member of their community, they might be more invested in making all this happen....?
If it comes down to media pressure, would the Bethlehem/Lehigh Valley newspapers have more influence than those in Mammoth Lakes...? (I have some connections at the Allentown Morning Call. I would be happy to contact them if that is what you decide to do.)
Or even better, national news.....such as Anderson Cooper or Rachel Maddow.
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kenish
Gym climber
Orange County, CA
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Sep 26, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
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About a month ago I asked a paralegal friend here in CA how to obtain cell phone and email records.
Her advice matched Chief Watson's....also, she suggested the family get a Court Order. Recipient(s) must adhere to the Order regardless of any contracts, privacy policies, etc. She said the best bet is through a CA court. CA will honor Orders from another state due to reciprocal agreements. But it could take a lot of paperwork between states; she wasn't sure about PA. I posted her reply here, or sent a message to family or helpers in PA, don't recall which. That said, I'm not a legal expert but my friend is the "investigator" at her office and has a lot of "skip trace" experience.
Hope this helps.
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tdg119
Social climber
Northampton, PA
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Sep 27, 2013 - 09:08am PT
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Last I talked to Detective Toronzi (PA Detective), he had gone through the case file and called me to follow up.
He issued a formal letter to the library asking them to detain the information on the server for the date in question until the necessary legal paperwork could be completed. That said, I do not know how far he's gotten with said legal paperwork.
When I spoke with him he was going to try some alternative avenues to get the other info (phone, email) prior to going through the process of search warrants. He was going to have one of the departments techies investigate the email further. Likewise, they were going to call Verizon and see where that got them.
This may work, it may not. They are doing what they can and no doubt have some sort of process they are adhering to.
I really do hope they don't run into the same issues w/ getting a warrant for the library info that CA did. If we run into the same issue in PA I will find a way to take it higher; it really sounds ridiculous to me.
I've heard many suggestions (namely on Facebook) about getting the story out there on Anderson or Nancy Grace. Believe me, I have tried to no avail. Media picks and chooses what it wants to display. We were lucky to even have gotten so far as national news for those few days.
In light of the snowfall in Mammoth Lakes, it's too dangerous for anyone to go out right now anyways so we can hope to obtain some info in time for the next "warm-up" that might allow some searches to more safety take a look.
~ Tiffany
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Ikat
Social climber
Carson City
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Sep 27, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
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This is so distressing to hear the legal contortions the family has to go through to get any information about their missing son / brother.
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Deekaid
climber
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Sep 27, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
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I agree... you can bet if they suspected Matt of committing a crime they would have access to those records like that
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Sep 27, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
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Tiffany et al,
If the Bethlehem police can't make progress fast, I wonder if National Public Radio (NPR) based in ? Philadelphia? would take this on. Or Rachel Maddow.....
I am thinking a show that thinks outside the box....
Cragman, that is a beautiful photo. Can you predict when it might be safe to search?
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Supermama
Social climber
pa
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Sep 27, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
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Hi Everyone...Green out at the football game tonight! The hosting team is in Bethlehem, Matt's home town, and wanted to show their support to Matt's family, students and colleagues. Hopefully the news will cover it.
Cragman...great photo...how could something so beautiful be so treacherous? Is that what attracts climbers? Looking at this picture reminds me of looking up into the night sky on a crisp autumn night and wondering how we survive in such a vast universe. It's amazing...
Tiffany...more money was raised today at our school for the search relief. Also, the t-shirt fundraiser ended today as well. If there is anything else we can do, please let me know. We are all thinking of you and your family.
Supermama
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Bad Climber
climber
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Sep 27, 2013 - 11:48pm PT
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Nice to see a little Henry D. Matthew went too soon, but likely he went the way must of us would like to go, in the mountains, that is. I suppose we may never know what happened, which has gotta be hard for his family and friends. Last year I read The Last Season about a back country ranger who disappeared. Even with a massive search, it took a long, long time to find him.
RIP Mr. Green
BAd
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Supermama
Social climber
pa
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Sep 28, 2013 - 08:41am PT
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Cragman...if only everyone could learn how to sing. Beautiful...
stzzo...thanks for the offer. If you do any searching, please let split pants know so she can mark the map of places searched. Please be careful and let someone know where you are climbing.
Supermama
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Sep 28, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
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Tioga, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience.
My father used to go to the White Mtns. of NH every summer for a week by himself to decompress and rejuvenate.
I have been thinking about the difference between Mammoth mountains and the Lehigh Valley mountains where Matt (and I) grew up....I may find a photo...
It is comforting to know that an injured person (and animal I suppose) often goes into shock....
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Sep 28, 2013 - 07:10pm PT
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Tiffany, thanks for the update about the Pennsylvania detective. Though it’s frustrating that this is taking so long, I find it encouraging that they’re continuing to pursue the Hotmail account and library router records by various means. I hope that they realize that the fall search window is very limited and that their efforts bear fruit quickly.
(My suggestion of media pressure was meant only if no headway could be made going through the authorities first.)
Cragman, thanks for the photo and the update about the weather around Mammoth. Brrr!
I hope that at least at lower elevations the snow has pretty much melted. A Meetup group from southern California was doing a long dayhike there today, going from Agnew Meadows to Thousand Island Lake, down to Garnet Lake, and back to Agnew. I posted some info about Matt on their event page, though it sounds like their route was more northerly than Matt’s would have been if he’d been making a beeline to Ediza Lake and the Ritter/Banner area.
Tioga, thanks for your thoughts on being injured in the wilderness – they’re reassuring. I appreciate everyone’s reflections on why we go out into nature...
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Sep 28, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
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Supermama
Social climber
pa
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Sep 29, 2013 - 11:22am PT
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Thanks Cragman...stunning pictures.
Hopefully the weather will stay mild now.
Pacarockhound...a very familiar sight. Simple yet beautiful. The fall foliage is just beginning to show its color. A few more weeks and it will be a spectacular display.
Stzzo...Please let us know if you were able to get in any hiking this weekend. Thank you!
Supermama
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pacarockhound
Social climber
Escondido CA
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Sep 30, 2013 - 02:31am PT
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Beautiful!
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OutdoorGal
Social climber
Lehigh Valley, PA
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Sep 30, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
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So was there a consensus opinion on areas to search based on the Morales info? Or was it determined he couldn't provide enough to go on? From his comment that he remembered a "B" place and that Banner rang a bell and was on the page he identifed in the Secor book, I wondered about Banner peak. Has that been focused on at all in the searches so far?
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Sep 30, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
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I am not aware of any searches currently being conducted. Cragman searched near Banner in early Sept.
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