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Kinobi
climber
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Feb 24, 2012 - 02:49pm PT
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I am sure, if he had it that time, Marco Pedrini would have carried a Leovince silencer for the compressor.
The compressor must stay there.
Everybody getting there, can sit and roar the magnificient "wroooommmm".
Ciao,
E
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rampik
Social climber
the alps
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Feb 24, 2012 - 02:52pm PT
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assist
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rampik
Social climber
the alps
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Feb 24, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
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two thousand
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rampik
Social climber
the alps
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Feb 24, 2012 - 02:54pm PT
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thanks kinobi
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Kinobi
climber
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Feb 24, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
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Stay tuned for 3000.
E
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Marcelo
Mountain climber
Singapore
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Feb 24, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
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Jenny stated In a sense, Italians do own Argentina. Half of the country's population are of Italian heritage.
I'm not sure how Argentinians feel about U.S. and Canadian climbers...but most Argentines are descended from colonial-era settlers and of the 19th and 20th century immigrants from Europe, and 86.4% of Argentina’s population self-identify as White-European descent. An estimated 8% of the population is mestizo, and a further 4% of Argentines were of Arab or East Asian heritage. In the last national census, based on self-identification, 600,000 Argentines (1.6%) declared to be Amerindians.
Even numbers are pretty accurate, I don't think than descending from can be assumed as being owned by. If that's the case then UK climbers will be free to do whatever they like in Yosemite.
In any case I think is better to consider mountains and other natural beauties independent of the countries and specially the politics. It will make them less poluted by sure.
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Marcelo
Mountain climber
Singapore
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Feb 25, 2012 - 10:47am PT
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Enzolino quoted When Doug Scott, Peter Boardman and Joe Tasker claimed that they summited Kangchenjunga, but they actually arrived four meters from the real tip of the mountain, I don't say that they are liars. I understand that for them they reached the summit, and that they are honest about their account.
This is completely different. From the 1st British ascent of George Band and Joe Brown, it was established that climbers will not put their feet on the real summit respecting the sacred status of the mountain for the Sikkim people. And that's what most of the summiters do. Is a completely different case than the others mentioned before and shows a valuable level of respect to the local beliefs.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Feb 25, 2012 - 11:00am PT
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In the antique and collectible business there are many items from the past that now we look back on and laugh or are shocked at their bias or lack of knowledge or ability.
But we don't destroy these items, and the reason is simply because they are history, and they speak of a time gone by, and they allow us to reflect on what went on before us.
To destroy is to take the past from everyone, even those who do not appreciate it.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Feb 25, 2012 - 11:11am PT
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Kind of like Love Canal. Leave it be it's history.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Feb 25, 2012 - 11:59am PT
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Argentines are Italians who speak Spanish, think they're like the French and act like they're British.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Feb 25, 2012 - 12:35pm PT
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Islas Malvinas son Argentinas
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Kinobi
climber
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Feb 25, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
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With reference to:
here is plenty of evidence that Maestri didn't complete the 1959 climb. There is NO evidence that he did. What is proof if not the weight of the evidence?
...
. And, since there is no evidence of the 1959 climb, the honesty of his character is the only thing supporting that claim. And it turns out he has the character of a combative child, and it seems doubtful that he can speak honestly about anything, let alone his claims to fame. Has anyone ever given a nastier interview about their great life-defining feat?
If he had really intended to prove his 1959 claims, he would have launched expeditions to repaeta the 1959 route and/or find Egger's body and camera (and bring it home with dignity), not bolt a via ferrata up the headwall (as that demonstrates NOTHING about his previous attempt, except for his wholesale conversion from alpine to siege style).
The obvious reason he didn't attempt to repeat the 1959 route was that he knew he could never climb it. His overwhelming hybris could not allow such a result as total failure.
We speak of the "murder of the impossible" and of the death of fair means, but those are abstract concepts. What of the death of Egger and the circumstances surrounding it? If Maestri's other claims regarding the 1959 climb are false, why would he be telling the truth about what happened to Egger? There is evidence that they did not agree about climbing strategy (Egger favored single alpine push, Maestri wanted to fix more rope). There is evidence that Maestri has a very volatile temper. Clearly, Egger fell from the mountain, that is true. But when a real man falls out of a cartoon, what are we supposed to believe?
Maybe Maestri thinks about that a lot.
Fava knows what happened up there. Doesn't want to talk about it. Why not?
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With such a great tradition of European alpinism, and so many truly inspiring climbers to idolize, this is your hero? This is history? This is who you spend your energy defending? Is this an example to hold up to the world and say "An Italian proudly made this in error, and it must therefore stay forever!"
...
Someone (can't remember who) posted that the pro-chopping crowd has an irrational, religious-like belief in some impossible ideal. I would turn that assertion around and say that Maestri's defenders are much more religious, having blind faith in ridiculous magical events that have no evidence in reality and in fact perpetuate a pernicious tradition of man subjugating nature to his own narrow interest, specifically for the achievement of his own glorified immortality. And they will go to war over these disputed events, even while admitting the fundamental claims should not be taken literally. Sounds exactly like religion to me."//
Dear Snorky,
how are you?
I got to know about this post only today.
Let me inform you in something...
a) for example, myselft, did not believe Messner and his first VIII degree rock climbing ever made, and I refer to the route on Sass dla Cruz, together with many more other strong (and good) climbers. I have repeted his route twice, among a lot of other strong climbers, always avoiding the "cruz". The first time I did it I was with Nicola Tondini, who returned on the route this year, and proved we were a buch of nerds not being able to do the move Messner did. Well, start right foot first, and not left one as "logical". It is in fact even easier than VIII...
http://www.planetmountain.com/News/shownews1.lasso?l=1&keyid=37706
May be the same fate can happen to Maestri's 1959 route. Sometimes the obvious, is not that obvious.
b) Cesarino Fava spoke many times in favour of 1959 route. If you do not belive me, you can ask to Mark Synnot and Jeff Achey which interview him, with me as translater. It's all taped. In cased you need, it's about time to do mp3. Cesarino now is dead.
b.2) in that circumstance, Maurizio Giarolli told exactly that from "Cristalli nel Viento", he rappeled down one pitch on Egger-Maestri and the ground looked "very doable". Maurizio Giarolli is a very strong veteran of Patagonia. Of course it does not match to what Ermanno Salvaterra said they following day, again to Achey and Synnot.
b.3) Maestri annd Fava said many times, the '59 route was Egger's. Egger was the leader, the ice masters that was dragging Maestri up. Ask Synnot and Achey.
c) Not everybody in Italy likes what Maestri did in 1970, myself included. Still, I believe he deserves respect for what he had the balls to do (by any mean and by any standard). And I believe that everybody needs to repesct the elderly.
d) Maestri, the hunman being, is having a very, very hard time himself. Of course it's a coincidence with the chopping, but unless you clearly claim he is an assassin, he deserve, in this specific time, a lot of respect and support.
e) in our laws you are innocent unless proven guilty. Like Coz said to Donini, "show me the proofs".
Finally I personally drove up to his house (3 hours, either way) to bring him my support. A pat on the shoulder that he deserves. In either way, belivers of '59 and non belivers, haters or lovers of 1970's Compressor, Cesare Maestri gave me a lot of inspiration, that, once more, I believe he deserve more respect.
And people should stop talking craps if they don't know.
Best,
Emanuele Pellizzari
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Feb 25, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
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@kinobi,
great post!!! Greetings to Maestri when you'll see him from an "unknown supporter". He also inspired me a lot. For me great mountaineers are not those who achieve, but those who inspire a lot. It would be also very nice to have the Synott interview published somewhere.
@Marcelo,
Enzolino quoted When Doug Scott, Peter Boardman and Joe Tasker claimed that they summited Kangchenjunga, but they actually arrived four meters from the real tip of the mountain, I don't say that they are liars. I understand that for them they reached the summit, and that they are honest about their account.
This is completely different. From the 1st British ascent of George Band and Joe Brown, it was established that climbers will not put their feet on the real summit respecting the sacred status of the mountain for the Sikkim people. And that's what most of the summiters do. Is a completely different case than the others mentioned before and shows a valuable level of respect to the local beliefs. Thanks for the correction.
What I wanted to enphasize was the pedantic and formal attitude to attribute achievements in mountaineering. Looking at the finger and forgetting the moon. Maestri didn't climb the mushroom (the second time), but he did an epic ascent. I don't remember the context, but probably this was the issue I wanted to enphasize.
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rampik
Social climber
the alps
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Feb 25, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
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già che ci siamo, buon 2012
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ckalous
Trad climber
Colorado
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Yo,
I don't hang tough over here on Supertopo too often. You know us CO guys, its a mad mad Mountain Project world. But I did read this entire thread in one sitting in preparation for an interview with Hayden Kennedy. I think a teeny bit of my soul dissipated that night, but amongst the brutal name calling, veiled threats, and wild speculation are some truly great posts.
Many have wondered many things about Jason and Hayden's thinking and actions in Patagonia. Well, here it is from the source. Enjoy.
http://enormocast.com/episode-6-hayden-kennedy-alpine-taliban-or-patagonian-custodian-part-1/
Chris Kalous
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bmacd
Boulder climber
100% Canadian
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I thought a team of waitresses from El Chaten went up on Cerro Torre last weekend and rebolted the the bolt ladder on the headwall, then descended to the Tore Eggar col and traversed out over the "lesser summits" back to the coffee shop just before closing time ??????
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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If you ever saw the waitress competition in Flagstaff, where local waitresses manoeuvre through obstacle courses with trays of glasses, you wouldn't think the above was too farfetched. Seriously, there was some amazing fitness there.
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groaz
Big Wall climber
italy
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In short time will come an important replay about the idea of cleaning the Maestri's route. You can read what think Jim Bridwell on planetmountain.com , but be patient people, wait for this few hours more... Bye.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Bridwell will be just another person lending his opinion, little new or substantive has come to this thread since it's inception. People have lined up pro or con ad nauseum- time to put this thread to bed, it has become similar to religious and political threads where people are polarized and intransigent about their views.
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groaz
Big Wall climber
italy
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But, Donini, the Maestri's route is ... the Bridwell's route! what he think about his route is very important. All the best.
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