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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 19, 2014 - 09:07am PT
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Do we mock you and the rest of the "Branch Carbonian's, Frosty? Well, not all the time anyway. Your prolific fundamentalist posting has been the source of endless humor, couldn't possibly have made such material up from the real world, wouldn't want to interrupt a mule from making an azz of himself, shouldn't make fun of the handicapped.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Dec 19, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
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Hey Chief, I meant to compare my Honda CH80 to your bikes AND it was meant to be a joke about relative speeds not MPG. I messed it up though when I edited in the bit about the bicycle. That made things confusing. Anyway, it was meant to be a friendly and fun comparison. I miss my motorcycle! I sold them to put my tiny motorcycle budget into sailing for awhile.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 19, 2014 - 05:24pm PT
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The Chief wrote:
Your climate science including ED Hartouni states repeatedly that any changes made by humans right now will NOT be seen in the climate for a min 3 or 400 years.
don't believe I said that, though I'm sure that The Chief probably misunderstood something I wrote and then misrepresented my writing.
He's not an accurate bloke when it comes to quotations, or much of anything else... but he does like to help a story "stray" a little bit, especially if it helps make his argument...
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Dec 19, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
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Damn!
I was going to preface a whole bunch of stuff on the Taco with 'Ed Hartouni states"
Now I see you read this stuff...
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:48am PT
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Why not.
Have you used the uniquely human ability of external to self self examination?
I could give you a short list of ideology common to you and all of your die hard cohorts but you would refuse to see.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Dec 21, 2014 - 10:38am PT
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The AGU meetings wrapped up on Friday with some of the best sessions across a number of fields, from climate to planetary geology. Very well attended and relevant to this thread was a session on Understanding Why People Reject Sound Scientific Information and How Scientists Can Respond, a topic that's on many scientists' minds these days.
Ben Santers (who incidentally is a climber) gave an excellent talk:
"After the storm: Lessons learned from the IPCC’s 'discernible human influence' finding"
His lessons from that "close encounters of the absurd kind" experience include the following. (My notes got better toward the end as I realized how good his points were.)
1. Not everyone is accessible to reason.
2. Words matter.
3. If you have a voice, use it.
"Climate scientists don't have the luxury of remaining silent. We have a responsibility...."
4. Hoping the bad stuff just goes away is a poor coping strategy -- sometimes you have to fight.
"A clear public understanding of climate science is worth fighting for."
5. You'll make enemies, but even more friends.
6. Respond to criticism with sound science.
"Never engage in 'science by eminence of position.' Do the science necessary to address the criticism."
7. Sometimes it's good not to be an IPCC convening lead author.
"If your scientific findings are robust, others will confirm them."
8. Don't just preach to the choir.
9. It's a privilege to do what we do.
"It is an extraordinary privilege to come into work each day and learn something new about the strange and beautiful world in which we live. That privilege should never be taken for granted."
10. Declare values.
"In presentations of climate science to the public, don't just talk about it." Santer talks about his experiences as a climber, illustrated with slides from Alaska icefields and glaciers.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Dec 21, 2014 - 03:46pm PT
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I could give you a short list of ideology common to you and all of your die hard cohorts but you would refuse to see.
Actually Rick, you can't provide us with a list that won't apply swimmingly well to yourself.
I did some looking around regarding that acronym CAGW you use:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Catastrophic_anthropogenic_global_warming
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Dec 23, 2014 - 08:52am PT
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Mental and atmospheric climate(s) all in one thread!!!11
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 23, 2014 - 09:23am PT
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Ho hum, seriously old, ratty, stale lures.
Weather is normal here in south central AK. In the teens with light snow.
The oceans are obeying the law of thermodynamics, giving up heat to a cooling atmosphere. The ice is expanding, duration and extent of snow cover increasing, record low temps outpacing record warm. All this, at the peak of solar cycle 24. Soon the steep slide to minimum must begin. Cloud cover will increase even more, temps plummet even more, the ice and snow extend even more.
And you idiots are crying fire. What is the world coming to?
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Dec 23, 2014 - 09:41am PT
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Well I guess it is pretty much a fact that the planet is getting warmer. The big question is whether it is man caused or God caused. For sure mankind is trashing the planet and trashing it at a faster rate than ever in history. I don't care if the changing climate is caused by this trashing but the trashing has to end. We are killing our planet. Last week I posted about the Operations Department at the local Nuclear Power Plant talking about reducing power because of warmer ocean water tempertures. I guess the problem is that warmer water coming in means warmer water going out and that is the issue. Because of enviornmentional mandates, the utility must keep the discharge water returning to the ocean below a certain temperature. Well, that warm water moved on and the sea water temperature returned to normal so all the freaking out was for nothing.
But..... there is now a issue that will have to be adressed. These giant electrity makers don't do too well at reduced power. They were made to run full power, 24/7. I vote for cooling towers. YEA!! This area could use a big money project like that.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Dec 23, 2014 - 09:55am PT
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I guess the problem is that warmer water coming in means warmer water going out and that is the issue.
It may be a design issue as well. The Russian Arktika class of nuclear-powered icebreakers work only in northern seas, and never see the Antarctic. They require cold water to cool their reactors and cannot sail through the tropics.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 23, 2014 - 10:12am PT
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Roger you'll feel better staying out of the politics of the issue and taking some direct action. May I suggest you do your part by buying an electric vehicle, a Tesla would fit the bill and is manufactured in state. Then, in a few years, install a oversized solar array with battery storage, but still tied to the grid. If enough people do this, it would reduce the need of expansion of ulility grade electrical generation plants.
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raymond phule
climber
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Dec 23, 2014 - 10:37am PT
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It is of course possibly that something is designed for the conditions that it is going to be used in even though it would be possibly to design it for a larger set of conditions.
Something isn't necessarily bad designed even though it cant work in all conditions.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 23, 2014 - 10:39am PT
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Chiloe, at the risk of getting further overboard, perhaps Ivan's reticence to send his big
icebreakers south has more to do with economics? Tropical water would cool those nukes
just fine IMHO. At the most they would just have to run the pumps harder, They could also
slow down - dialing down the reactor to produce less steam would require less cooling.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Dec 23, 2014 - 10:48am PT
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Aren't those Russians clever, by taking advantage of the conditions the ship would operate in?
They must have taken engineering 101 classes.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Dec 23, 2014 - 10:58am PT
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Tropical water would cool those nukes just fine IMHO.
I don't think that's true. The Arktika class was specifically designed to be cooled by cold water, as in the conditions pictured above. Russia does operate non-nuclear icebreakers around Antarctica, where they're often leased by other countries (including the US) who need heavy breaking done.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Dec 23, 2014 - 11:08am PT
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There's no real military need to plow ship canals in Antarctic ice, is there? No economic need either.
Who gives a sh#t about ice breaking in the Antarctic, anyway?
You trolling, Dingus?
I never did tell that story about who named the Transantarctic Mountains.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Dec 23, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
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So what are you saying Chief?
Are the Russians stupid?
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Dec 23, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
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^^ ^^^^
..as climate truther B.K. demonstrates
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Dec 23, 2014 - 01:43pm PT
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Modern Climate change hoaxing is the same type of silliness as the Geocentric solar system belief system of hundreds of years past.
The greatest minds of those times also developed and published hugely complex models to 'prove' the Earth was the center of the universe and everything, Sun, planets, stars, all revolved around us.
They were wrong just like today's AGW truthers.
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