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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 16, 2014 - 09:16am PT
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We passed the 2c target here in south central AK by miles this winter so far. Can't you guys use a little less CO2 down there? Be less piggish, be green, put your orders in now for your electric vehicles and solar arrays.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 16, 2014 - 10:41am PT
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Come on, lets keep it on topic boys.
What the hell are we going to do aboit all this 2 month warm spell in AK? I see it as a problem of your guys making. Your piggish habits in the "developed world" down south has magnified problems in the arctic. If your not going to change your ways and put your mula where your mouths are, we demand reparations up here in the developing world. Hell, we want reparations anyway, the skiing and snow machining suck and is causing economic damage.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 16, 2014 - 11:19am PT
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Hell yes Frosty, your little province has been extorting money from the feds, and by extention the proceeds of other productive provinces like the good tar sand people of Alberta, for years to support your green dreams, taking advantage of low paid foreign labor, etc, etc. Anyway, since the worlds polution seems to always settle to amplified damages in the arctic, we want our cut of your ill gotten gain. You know, social justice for the oppressed, fairness, and guilt payment in lieu of actual change.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
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... take a long hard look in your carnival mirror ...
Hoh man... Zing!!
Nice pic of the Bay Dingus.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Dec 16, 2014 - 08:14pm PT
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At the AGU meetings this week, always quite an experience for its sheer scale and energy level -- well over 20,000 scientists in one place, all of them excited to tell you about their research.
In a hot room with bright lights deep in Moscone South there's a team filming interviews for a climate MOOC that Bruce might enjoy taking one day, it will emphasize among other things the psychology of climate change. That's actually a field of study now with its controversies and big questions.
I've been hitting some of the cryosphere sessions, where you can see year to year progress on sea ice, glacier and permafrost dynamics. Also eavesdropping on a few planetary or tectonic sessions, kind of a hobby interest. NASA might have Venus all wrong but the excitement today came from Mars, those methane spikes what are they from?
Meanwhile, NOAA updated their global temp index for November; it looks like there's some chance their index (like NASA's) will mark 2014 as a new record.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 16, 2014 - 08:31pm PT
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WTF. Who flips the bill for a sociologist to go to a convention for real scientists?
Maybe thats a little harsh. I will phrase it better next time.
Methane spikes? Do they have a location or mechanism naiked down? Biogenic or Abiogenic?
Forget Bruce. He's flaming out....of the closet.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 16, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
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that rick, who doesn't understand anything about science, to make pronouncements about scientists is dark comedy... but then he's given to making (and defending) absurd statements from his demented fantasies.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2014/12/15/science.1261713.full
from Science Express
Published Online December 16 2014
Science DOI: 10.1126/science.1261713
REPORT
Mars methane detection and variability at Gale crater
Christopher R. Webster, Paul R. Mahaffy, Sushil K. Atreya, Gregory J. Flesch, Michael A. Mischna, Pierre-Yves Meslin, Kenneth A. Farley, Pamela G. Conrad, Lance E. Christensen, Alexander A. Pavlov, Javier Martín-Torres, María-Paz Zorzano, Timothy H. McConnochie, Tobias Owen, Jennifer L. Eigenbrode, Daniel P. Glavin, Andrew Steele, Charles A. Malespin, P. Douglas Archer Jr., Brad Sutter, Patrice Coll, Caroline Freissinet, Christopher P. McKay, John E. Moores, Susanne P. Schwenzer, John C. Bridges, Rafael Navarro-Gonzalez, Ralf Gellert, Mark T. Lemmon, the MSL Science Team
ABSTRACT
Reports of plumes or patches of methane in the Martian atmosphere that vary over monthly timescales have defied explanation to date. From in situ measurements made over a 20-month period by the Tunable Laser Spectrometer (TLS) of the Sample Analysis at Mars (SAM) instrument suite on Curiosity at Gale Crater, we report detection of background levels of atmospheric methane of mean value 0.69 ± 0.25 ppbv at the 95% confidence interval (CI). This abundance is lower than model estimates of ultraviolet (UV) degradation of accreted interplanetary dust particles (IDP’s) or carbonaceous chondrite material. Additionally, in four sequential measurements spanning a 60-sol period, we observed elevated levels of methane of 7.2 ± 2.1 (95% CI) ppbv implying that Mars is episodically producing methane from an additional unknown source.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Dec 17, 2014 - 08:06am PT
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Dec 17, 2014 - 08:26am PT
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Er, Um, Chief. Check the temps for 1999 and 2000.
Btw, your 'pause' increased the long term warming rate.
Can someone please explain to The Chief how averages and trend lines work?
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Dec 17, 2014 - 08:43am PT
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That's because it is hot, Chief.
Your 'pause' starts way above the trend.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Dec 17, 2014 - 08:51am PT
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But, Chief, why does your idea of a climate system include such a massive, instantaneous change in 1998?
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Dec 17, 2014 - 08:56am PT
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But Chief, why is this neutral year hotter than the most massive recorded El-Nino?
BTW, Chief, I see about the same amount of La-Nina's as El-Nino's in your graphs.
Do you know what an oscillation means?
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Dec 17, 2014 - 09:02am PT
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Translation of Chief speak:
But the dial goes to 11!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 17, 2014 - 09:03am PT
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not zero warming...
little change in the global mean surface temperature over a climatically short time period.
try to be precise.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Dec 17, 2014 - 09:05am PT
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Or in other words, a level that is massively higher than the previous level.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Dec 17, 2014 - 09:07am PT
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That level is much higher than the previous levels.
Try to focus.
Look at the straight lines above.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Dec 17, 2014 - 09:09am PT
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How come you don't like to show trends from the 1970's Chief?
Are you trying to hide that your 'pause' is so much higher than the previous 'pause'?
I'm off to work. Have a good day!
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Dec 17, 2014 - 11:31am PT
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Dark comedy, eh Ed? Fantasies?
What's really a sick fantasy is Chiloe Imagining himself to be a climate scientist, or your wish, if you had it to do over again, to throw a lifetime of work away in the respectable field of nuclear physics for a merry go round in the psuedo science of AGW. I still think, at times anyway, that this entire thread is a comedy to troll in people actually deluded enough to accept the absurd contortions resorted to, to prop up this failed hypothesis.
Anyway, forgetting that unhappy horseshet for a moment, this Martian enigma provides an avenue for some legitamate and profound science. The '76 viking lander had a positive test for the signature of life. This was later explained away as a false positive. So now we have another possible signature but a long ways to go for a definitive explanation. Opinions besides offerings of an abstract? Can anyone think of an experiment using the tools on hand, on the surface, or in orbit around Mars, to provide an answer to the question of the methanes source being bio or non bio?
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