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c wilmot
climber
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Dec 31, 2016 - 10:13am PT
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A growing population means less water. Until we stop our unsustainable population growth these shortages will continue to get worse.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 31, 2016 - 10:17am PT
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^^^^^ That's unpatriotic!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2016 - 10:48am PT
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That is a cool 3D relief map in the museum. Next time I am back home (when I have the money) I think I'll check it out.
Happy New Year to all.
Cheers
Patrick
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Dec 31, 2016 - 10:53am PT
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The label of "desert" for the San Joaquin valley floor has always bugged me, for there was a great system of lakes at one time, which deserts lack.
So I'm going to say that this is possibly a term promoted in hype to get folks to back the Central Valley Project and the building of Friant Dam, et al., by the movers and shakers behind it.
It is propaganda, in other words, playing on fear and ignorance.
"Tell a lie for agriculture."
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2016 - 11:17am PT
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A growing population means less water. Until we stop our unsustainable population growth these shortages will continue to get worse.
not entirely true. Here in LA, we use the same amount of water as we did FORTY YEARS AGO, in spite of growth from about 2.5 million, to 4 million.
Until we stop our unsustainable population growth......
This is already happening:
Population growth. Los Angeles County — the most populous in the nation with about 10.1 million people — was projected less than a decade ago to reach a population of 12 million by 2030. Now, the county is expected to reach that milestone after 2060, according to state estimates.
The total fertility rate (TFR), the average number
of children a woman would bear if today’s age-
specific rates of fertility prevailed throughout her
lifetime, fell by one-third from 2.7 lifetime births
per woman in 1990 to 1.8 in 2010.
In 1990, TFR was higher in Los Angeles County
(2.7 per woman) compared to both California
(2.5 per woman) and the U.S. (2.1 per woman).
However, by 2010, TFR was lower for Los Angeles
County with a rate of 1.8 as compared to
California and the U.S. (both 1.9).
http://www.publichealth.lacounty.gov/epi/docs/Birth_Trends_Health_Brief_Final.pdf
California’s birth rate dropped to its lowest ever in 2016, according to data released by the state’s Department of Finance.
Between July 2015 and July of this year, there were 12.42 births per 1,000 Californians. The last time birth rates came close to being that low was during the Great Depression, when they hit 12.6 in 1933.
On the negative side, in a powerpoint discussion of the trends, is this:
**Consider pro‐natalist policies that seek to reverse the
decline in total fertility rate**
– Provide allowance for newborn children
– Promote policies that embrace working mothers
– Paid maternity and paternity leaves
THAT concept is insanity!
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Dec 31, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
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You will still have immigration, even from other states.
Do you ever think there will be major agreement on how to approach water issues? Or are there too many conflicting opinions?
This affects many people, for example we get a lot of produce from California.
Can Mexico supply it if California reduces agriculture?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Ducks in the desert?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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East of El Nido, south of Merced.Life is a beach towel.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Telling is that there were large tracts of sand dunes on the west side back in the day.
I didn't know that!
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Jan 1 average season to date rainfall downtown LA is about 4 inches...
This season we are over 6, with roughly 70% of the expected rainfall for the season, still to come.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Ed, unfortunately, that translates into 45 Billion Gallons into the Pacific Ocean, unused for the most part.
We have to change that, that's about 30% of the entire city water needs for the entire year.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Bankruptcy sales have historically proven successful. Very high well drilling permit fees, is another arrow in the quiver. And eminent domain for the recalcitrant ones. It will take a real disaster to get the public will sufficiently riled to force these changes, but it will get done.
DMT
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Reilly
Nov 18, 2016 - 11:31am PT
Call me a realist but I strongly suspect it will get done only after the boat is high and dry,
or more appropriately, low and dry.
We got pretty close. LA, SF, Sacto, Orange County are pretty secure. But a number of central valley towns, San Diego, and coastal cities like Ventura and Santa Barbara were approaching dire straits. Some will not be helped a lot by these rains, because they have not changed their ways a lot, like LA and Orange County have.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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25% of LA county surface area is devoted to the automobile.. driveways, streets, parking lots, freeways.. all mean zero infiltration and maximum runoff. The flood management philosophy and design is evacuate, get it out to the ocean, and get it out quick. There are a few exceptions but generally when it does rain in LA, "management" philosophy has not been infiltration to save the water for later, but just get it out to prevent flood damage with seemingly no thought for water supply.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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What you say HAS been true, but is true no longer.
From the County Stormwater management website front page:
"In urbanized areas, storm-water and urban runoff volumes can be reduced by removing impervious surfaces, utilizing swales, berms, or other onsite Best Management Practices (BMP) s to capture and infiltrate the runoff. Larger water quality projects can capture, treat, and naturally recharge the groundwater to augment local drinking water supplies."
I sit on one committee for the city, for example, that is looking at the possibilities of "permeable paving", particularly in parking lot settings, that would capture, rather than produce, runoff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-5S9LIyYvQ
Also:
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-stormwater-runoff-20150617-story.html
The State board voted unanimously to approve a controversial set of revisions to Los Angeles County's stormwater discharge permit.
Among other things, the revisions provide a framework for cities to plan and build aquifer recharge systems and other forms of "green infrastructure," officials said.
Many of the world's water basins are being depleted, studies find
Proponents of such systems say that rainwater can be captured before it comes into contact with contaminants and funneled into underground aquifers, or over spreading fields where it percolates through the soil.
In other cases, swales can direct the flow of rainwater to areas of vegetation or landscaping instead of plunging down gutters. Water could also be captured in holding areas for use later in irrigation systems.
That was in 2015, so you are only a couple of years behind the curve. Of note, other than the Counties of LA, and Orange, I don't think any other gov't agency is pursuing this anywhere near as aggressively.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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It is too bad that when you finally realize that paving over much or most of an area is a bad idea, you have already done it.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Ken,
perfect governmental delusion...
What percentage of paved area has your board's "can be" has actually been converted to permeable surface??
if it is more than 50% then, and only then is your conversion of my statements to past tense valid.
Otherwise you should be correcting your Bureaucratic self.
I am amazed at the governmental arrogance that thinks "looking into" represents some form of completion, rather than smoke ineptly blown.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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The joke is,
conversion is knee jerk for the short term...
dynamic equilibrium will come around, and there will be enough water...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sounds like some water about to slam into central california this week...
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Well said Ed:
I am amazed at the governmental arrogance that thinks "looking into" represents some form of completion, rather than smoke ineptly blown.
BAd
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