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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 25, 2014 - 10:23am PT
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Now for something ON TOPIC that will shake some up: Climate Engineering
I've now attended two lecturs, one at JPL last year, and at UCLA last week, on this topic. Google it if it isn't familiar, the wiki page on it is pretty good.
There is an international debate going on right now, as to whether scientists should begin small scale experiments. This debate, to my astonishment, is occurring solely in the small scientific community where this expertise exists.
The bottom line is that there are technologies now available that theory supports would have the effect of reversing the global warming that is now occurring. However, there are consequences, which might be minor, or might be major, no one knows.
I have been astonished that his debate has remained off the radar screen of the public. Last year, this was happening deliberately, as the scientists involved were concerned that this approach would be taken in place of dealing with the carbon issue, but that seems to have been abandoned at this point.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 25, 2014 - 10:56am PT
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Here are the conclusions thus far.
1. The GAT (global average temp) has risen .6 to .9 since the end of the LIA to present. The LIA itself was a global departure from average temps over the previous several hundred years of at least 1C. Therefore there is nothing unusual with the present temp.
2. Preceding the LIA were periods known as the MWP, RWP, and the HCO. During these periods the GAT was as warm ,to distinctly warmer, than today's GAT.
3. Most climate scientists agree that the last 10 to 20+ years has seen a plateau of GAT ranging from a slight incline trend to a slight decline trend. This is in spite of atmospheric CO2 content rising faster than the worst imagined projections.
4. There has been no increase in severity or frequency of damaging extreme weather events. Even the IPCC acknowledges this in AR5.
5. There are hundreds of published, peer reviewed scientific studies verifying nos. 1 through 4 above. The core of mainstream alarmist scientists, and their dupes ( represented by multiple posters here), try their best to ignore or discredit these validating studies.
6.The fluctuations represented by the above mentioned alternating periods of warm and cool periods were all preindustrial, therfore not caused by manmade release of CO2. Considering this, and the oftentimes rapid change from warm to cool, natural mechanisms like solar fluctuations, oceanic oscillations, albedo changes, and atmospheric opacity changes due to changes in aerosol content ( global dimming and brightening) are the likely causation. Since there is nothing unusual about the modest warming of the 20th century it is likely that natural causation is Its primary reason.
7. The IPCC was founded by a fugitive criminal currently residing in China to avoid prosecution. The IPCC is dominated by extreme environmentalists. These extremists largely agree that the earth is overpopulated, polluted, and otherwise damaged by man. The reason for the IPCC's existence is to usher in global governance, reductions in energy use and radical increases in taxation, deindustrialization, population reduction, and reduction of quality of life for all the remainder but the ruling junta and party loyalists of the single desired fascist state.
This is but a cursory examination of the state of the scientism and scam behind it.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 25, 2014 - 01:11pm PT
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How could you disagree Frosty? We've painstakingly built my above referenced muliple points of consensus over years and 30, 000+ posts. What particular fact do you beg to differ with?
Remember even Dr. Hartouni has stated " the anthropogenic signal is rather feeble compared to the range of natural variability". He also has frequently sited the precautionary principle in lieu of scientific fact, and who can forget his near continual support for crippling carbon taxation and necessarily skyrocketing energy costs.
Don't tell us you are a disagreeable old, drunken,crackpot who hasn't been paying attention. My, my, where are the ethics and competancy that your daddy, Dudley Doright, instilled in you?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2014 - 04:48pm PT
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One for you, KaveMAN and BRUCEE KAY is to do so for just ONE Day, ...
Gosh The Chief, it's been days since I called anybody a name; unless you think "fraud" is an undeserved insult.
Perhaps it's time you looked in the mirror.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Nov 25, 2014 - 06:32pm PT
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Climate engineering:
which of those techniques are you talking about?
Rick Troller:
#1 that you posted is the only thing close to accurate, ~.9 degrees C.
The rest, of course, is absolute fabricated troll noise gibberish nonsense heartland propaganda, as you intended, and follows the basic denier pattern of pretending to have a rational thought but failing 6th grade science.
References: every single renown scientific organization in the world, including: NAS, NASA, EPA, APS, UCAR/NCAR, IPCC, UCS, etc.
Remember: 97%
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 25, 2014 - 07:24pm PT
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Climate engineering:
which of those techniques are you talking about?
Solar Radiation Management. And unlike the Chief thinks, the timeframe for effect is very fast, measured in months.
"Proposed examples include the creation of stratospheric sulfate aerosols. They would not reduce greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere, and thus do not address problems such as ocean acidification caused by these gases. Their principal advantages as an approach to climate engineering is the speed with which they can be deployed and become fully active, as well as their low financial cost."
Although it is neither my area of specialty nor Ed H's, his associate Edward Teller, has become involved in this, so thought Ed H might have some insight.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 25, 2014 - 08:45pm PT
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Talking of sockpuppet inventions. What happened to Chiloe/Scifi.
Are they in Patagonia trying to rebuild Maestri's compressor?
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roadkillphil
Trad climber
Colorado
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Nov 26, 2014 - 06:46am PT
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What an interesting thread. I get the idea most ST posters know each other.......like high school cliques. Very mature dialogue. A shining example of California "culture."
I had considered offing myself as per a suggestion on this thread previously, but remember I had said it was important to not go it alone....population reduction must be just that. I mean if it saves only one planet, wouldn't it be worth it?
You guys keep having your fun. With 8" of fresh overnight and free opening day skiing at the Butte, I got better things to do.
BTW...any thoughts on the Voile V8's? I feel like doing a little consuming.
I'll check back in a couple weeks to see what hasn't changed.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2014 - 09:04am PT
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What's funny, The Chief, is that you don't realize your ideology is set from listening to folks who have been thoroughly debunked, yet you still double down on their talking points.
Talk about a sheep. Bhaaaa...
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 26, 2014 - 11:28am PT
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only sheepclowns believe in science...Aviation, thermal dynamics, physics, meteorology, that shit's all magic, plain and simple.
Baaaaaaahhh? Chef's impression of Stevie Nicks.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Nov 26, 2014 - 01:26pm PT
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Opposition to the Alarmists
who blame global warming on CO2 is based on fully competent science;
and the mythical 'international scientific consensus'
absolutely does not exist!
Thousands of us with advanced degrees in the hard sciences agree
that CO2 is a non-problem.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 27, 2014 - 06:07pm PT
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You never SAY anything.
But ,hope you all had a nice TG.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Nov 27, 2014 - 07:48pm PT
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Lord Monckton, a favorite of Sketch and TGT, in 1987:
There is only one way to stop AIDS. That is to screen the entire population regularly and to quarantine all carriers of the disease for life. Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month ... all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently.
Lord Monckton is quite the alarmist.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Nov 28, 2014 - 09:32am PT
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^^^
Good luck to anything flying...birds, planes.
Of course we already have something that is close to the same efffect, without the blinding reflections and costs associated with space age materials science...it's called white paint on the roof. A novel concept, I know, but one that works quite well for me and thousands of others with homes in the desert.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 29, 2014 - 11:43am PT
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Yeah the balmy teens to twenties temps are allowing my sons to get in two more presale foundations with blankets only, instead of tents and a half million BTU spew of CO2 plantfood. I see the majority of the lower fort eight has had one of the earliest onset and early severe winters in living memory. The vast expanse of northern asia even more so. Is this how the previous glacials started with extreme central continental conditions leading to a cooling of interior land and water masses to the point that one year the snows didn't completely melt, then with a buildup trend from there.
This period of low solar activity is certainly reeking havoc on the AGW scientismists assumptions of weather patterns, oceanic oscillations, and model projected monotonous heat rise with the buildup of the atmospheric trace gas and plant food CO2. You aint seen nothing yet, just wait till we get on the steep downslope of the cycle.
Seems the El Nino of 2014 has snuck in undetected by the climate dummies and manifests itselfs in an unfamiliar pattern. Who would of thunk it; certainly not the propagandists parrotted by old Frosty.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 30, 2014 - 01:03am PT
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Does the earth turn into a sort of refrigerator asks Frosty the Snowman? Well Frosty perhaps you can look into permafrost at high lattitudes, or centuries of use of the underground as root cellars, or consider for a moment a dearth of solar SW , which only penetrates inches into bare earth anyway, being reflected away as a result of albedo increase from longer duration and extent of snow and ice cover. Solar dimming and brightening- what the hell do you think this is Frosty? In your ignorance do you assume it to mean actual dimming of TSI beyond the accepted range of .1 %? No dummy, its the amount of radiation that makes it through the atmosphere after effects of increased/decreased cloud cover and varying amounts and composition of aerosols. And what causes these variations of clouds and aerosols?
Oh yeah, I know CO2, the symbol of evil for the simple minded and brainwashed useful idiots. Couldn't be the understudied effects of the variable solar spectrum, magnetic field flux, or flux in aerosols released by the biota which increases with warm phases as a result of large amounts of CO2 plantfood release from the natural sinks.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2014 - 07:59am PT
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Interesting graph Sketch has made--but can he explain why it's relevant to our discussion?
From here it looks like he's honed his cherry-picking skills.
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