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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 14, 2014 - 08:19am PT
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Here comes that"ever"guy ...lol
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Nov 14, 2014 - 09:53am PT
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 15, 2014 - 12:55pm PT
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From Bruce's link above, these observations from Jennifer Francis:
A growing body of research led by Jennifer Francis, a research professor at Rutgers University’s Institute of Marine and Coastal Science, suggests Arctic warming causes less drastic changes in temperatures between northern and southern climates, leading to weakened west-to-east winds, and ultimately, a wavier jet stream like the one that caused last year’s Polar Vortex event.
“This kind of pattern is going to be more likely, and has been more likely,” she said at the time. “Extremes on both ends are a symptom. Wild, unusual temperatures of both sides, both warmer and colder.”
Francis’ research is not yet settled science. It’s disputed by some well-respected climatologists, including Dr. Kevin E. Trenberth, a distinguished senior climate scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, who thinks more work needs to be done to show how climate change causes a wavy jet stream.
But now, with this autumn Arctic event, Francis’ prediction during last winter’s Polar Vortex seems to be coming true.
“The pattern that we’re in right now looks very similar to the pattern that we were in all last winter,” she told ClimateProgress on Thursday. “It’s hard to say that this particular pattern in connected with any particular cause in terms of climate change, but what we do know is that we’re seeing a very wavy pattern over the U.S. right now.”
I was at a workshop with Dr Francis this week and heard more on the topic, not just about the evidence and theory but also the scientific skepticism and discussion around it. (Real science skepticism, not the fake kind we see here.) Also at the workshop was a Science magazine writer who is working on a story concerning both Francis' work, and the unrelated but also controversial reports on Arctic methane release from Natalia Shakhova and colleagues.
Both Francis and Shakhova (et al.) have challenged climate scientists with unusual and potentially important findings, and in both cases met with skepticism and criticism from other well-regarded scientists (e.g. Kevin Trenberth and Gavin Schmidt respectively). The original authors' responses to criticism so far have gone in different directions, with different results, and that seems to be the angle the Science writer is working for a story.
It's a fine window on climate science in progress.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 15, 2014 - 03:50pm PT
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My take on it Frosty? You can't be serious.
Anyway, without reading the article I can still pretty well explain in general terms the utility of Ms. Francis. Seems the U.S., parts of the Europeon Union, and depostic latin american poseurs is the last bastion of communist delusion on the planet. China and Russia have abandoned the concept long ago in favor of centrally controlled corporate/statist rule better known as fascism and make no illusion of hiding it since it does seem to lift all countrymens boats in their expanding economies. The U.S. is on the same path but through deception. Idiots like the aforementioned Ms. Francis are useful in that they can fool some of the fools some of the time through their gibberish, alarmist scientism. For others , like Msr. Choloe, there Is an econmoic imperative to keep the funds rolling in by supporting the foregone conclusion of CAGW scientism. There are many other reasons and subsets of reasons for supporting the climate farce , but a common element amongst them Is that because of years of utopian brainwashing or yapping greed , they don't have enough noodle left to realize this aint going where they envision.
Oh yeah. Vortex Smortex, its just weather.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 16, 2014 - 08:40pm PT
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Anyway, without reading the article I can still pretty well explain in general terms the utility of Ms. Francis.
I think that would be either Dr. Francis of Prof. Francis, rick, and like all of your "criticisms" and "analyses" you don't actually have to even read the articles to know what they are about...
...that makes it very easy for you.
And it makes it very easy to ignore you too.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 16, 2014 - 08:43pm PT
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Are you Grubering me Ed. Too funny.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Nov 17, 2014 - 08:11am PT
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Makes you wonder just how low the republican party can go with dumb-down low information voters.
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FluxAdventures
climber
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Nov 17, 2014 - 08:17am PT
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climate it´s always changing no matter what we do. At this point we are just accelerating the process. Alternatives do exist but it´s more about educating people, we need to start changing our wasting habits.
http://www.fluxadvetures.com
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 17, 2014 - 09:10am PT
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Unfortunately for you Frosty, I neither tell a good story or subscribe to fruitloop conspiracy tales.
Likewise Frosty, CAGW scientism is neither a good story or a conspiracy theory, since their publications of process and intent is as hyperactive as a Gruber on meth.
The "ignorant masses" are not buying it. The rationally functioning national governments aren't buying it. The majority of the "unpaid for" scientific community is not buying it.
There are winners and losers in individuals as well as nations. Those merrily skipping down the path, as described and prescibed by the Drs. of Doomism , are subjecting themselves to irrelevancy ( sort of like a snow shoveler as yourself without any snow) and the dustbin of history.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 17, 2014 - 09:15am PT
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Every single action mankind makes affects the climate.
There's no escape from this fact .....
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 17, 2014 - 09:21am PT
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So Werner, are you subscribing to the notion of man's ( and to be politically correct womans, transgender, etc. etc.) Ignorant and self destructive supremacy over nature?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 17, 2014 - 09:29am PT
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rick seems to have time on his hands today...
The "ignorant masses" are not buying it. The rationally functioning national governments aren't buying it. The majority of the "unpaid for" scientific community is not buying it.
I assume this is the result of your usual "research" methodology, rick, which is to state your opinion as fact, based on "fact-like" information you find on the web that supports your opinions.
While you proclaim a skeptic's mantle, you are obviously not a skeptic...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 17, 2014 - 09:39am PT
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here is an interesting tidbit...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-12/u-s-expects-5-billion-from-program-that-funded-solyndra.html
The results contradict the widely held view that the U.S. has wasted taxpayer money funding failures including Solyndra, which closed its doors in 2011 after receiving $528 million in government backing. That adds to Obama’s credibility as he seeks to make climate change a bigger priority after announcing a historic emissions deal with China.
refers to this report:
http://www.energy.gov/articles/energy-department-s-loan-portfolio-continues-strong-performance-while-deploying-innovation
"As of September 2014, 20 projects supported by LPO are operational and generating revenue. These projects are now repaying their loans to the U.S. Treasury, which issued the loans guaranteed by the Department through the Federal Financing Bank. Already, $3.5 billion in loan principal has been repaid on these long-term loans, which have an average tenor of 22 years. In addition, more than $810 million in interest payments have already been earned. For loans that have been disbursed to date, we expect to earn more than $5 billion in total interest payments over the full term of the loans -- all of which goes back to the benefit of taxpayers."
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 17, 2014 - 09:39am PT
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Professor, Just refer to me as Dr. Sumner, All my representations are fact, based on innumerable scientific studies, published surveys in the world of common man as well as the scientific establishment.
But, I am idignant that you would question the authenticity of my representations. Like many of your heroes in the CAGW community, I will not suffer from such fools the request of providing supporting data.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 17, 2014 - 09:49am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Only a climate scientist could love that
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Nov 17, 2014 - 09:50am PT
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Sketch sinks to the levels we've come to expect...
and rick is true to form, in his mind he's a "Ph.D." having accomplished what he imagines is the work required to obtain such a degree... and he did it without even having to do anything more than reading blogs on the internet.
Both display the limits of their abilities... I expect that they'll continue to display their grasp of the issues in following posts... go for it guys!
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 17, 2014 - 10:07am PT
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I'll have you know, professor, I recieved my degree from a non accredited, fictitious, off shore university after months of diligent late night study. In the future you'll please show some respect by addressing me as DR. Sumner.
Anyway, its been fun as usual, but im off to the real world. A deal to sign, and my little local third class choss circuit to practice. Cold here this morning, 17F, but unlike AK at this time of year this lower latitude sun has some real bite. Makes for comfortable conditions as long as the wind is calm.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Nov 17, 2014 - 10:26am PT
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Sketch..."This study was done in order to address the broader question of public opinion versus scientific opinion. It asked two questions, one about whether temperature is increasing, and one about whether or not human activity is contributing to any change. Here are the results:
Question #1: When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?
About 90% of all the scientists and 97% of the climate scientists said temperatures had risen.
Question #2: Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?
About 82% of all the scientists and 97% climate scientists agreed that human activity is a significant contributing factor.
The anonymous poll sought the opinion of the most complete list of earth scientists they could find, contacting more than 10,200 experts at universities and government labs around the world listed in the 2007 edition of the American Geological Institute's Directory of Geoscience Departments. The 2-minute, two-question poll had 3146 responses (30.7% of those polled). Approximately 90% of the scientists who responded were from the U.S., and about 90% held a Ph.D. degree. Of these scientists, 5% were climate scientists who published more than 50% of all their peer-reviewed publications in the past five years on the subject of climate change. The authors noted that the survey included participants with well-documented dissenting opinions on global warming theory."
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