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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Nov 12, 2014 - 08:22pm PT
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Stupidity is a badge of honor for these folks. They live and embrace it.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Nov 12, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
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From The New York Times...
GREENBELT, Md. — I’M a climate scientist and a former astronaut. Not surprisingly, I have a deep respect for well-tested theories and facts. In the climate debate, these things have a way of getting blurred in political discussions.
In September, John P. Holdren, the head of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, was testifying to a Congressional committee about climate change. Representative Steve Stockman, a Republican from Texas, recounted a visit he had made to NASA, where he asked what had ended the ice age:
“And the lead scientist at NASA said this — he said that what ended the ice age was global wobbling. That’s what I was told. This is a lead scientist down in Maryland; you’re welcome to go down there and ask him the same thing.
“So, and my second question, which I thought it was an intuitive question that should be followed up — is the wobbling of the earth included in any of your modelings? And the answer was no...
“How can you take an element which you give the credit for the collapse of global freezing and into global warming but leave it out of your models?”
That “lead scientist at NASA” was me. In July, Mr. Stockman spent a couple of hours at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center listening to presentations about earth science and climate change. The subject of ice ages came up. Mr. Stockman asked, “How can your models predict the climate when no one can tell me what causes the ice ages?”
I responded that, actually, the science community understood very well what takes the earth into and out of ice ages. A Serbian mathematician, Milutin Milankovitch, worked out the theory during the early years of the 20th century. He calculated by hand that variations in the earth’s tilt and the shape of its orbit around the sun start and end ice ages. I said that you could think of ice ages as resulting from wobbles in the earth’s tilt and orbit.
The time scales involved are on the order of tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years. I explained that this science has been well tested against the fossil record and is broadly accepted. I added that we don’t normally include these factors in 100-year climate projections because the effects are too tiny to be important on such a short time-scale.
And that, I thought, was that.
So I was bit surprised to read the exchange between Dr. Holdren and Representative Stockman, which suggested that at best we couldn’t explain the science and at worst we scientists are clueless about ice ages.
We aren’t. Nor are we clueless about what is happening to the climate, thanks in part to a small fleet of satellites that fly above our heads, measuring the pulse of the earth. Without them we would have no useful weather forecasts beyond a couple of days.
These satellite data are fed into computer models that use the laws of motion — Sir Isaac Newton’s theories — to figure out where the world’s air currents will flow, where clouds will form and rain will fall. And — voilŕ — you can plan your weekend, an airline can plan a flight and a city can prepare for a hurricane.
Satellites also keep track of other important variables: polar ice, sea level rise, changes in vegetation, ocean currents, sea surface temperature and ocean salinity (that’s right — you can accurately measure salinity from space), cloudiness and so on.
These data are crucial for assessing and understanding changes in the earth system and determining whether they are natural or connected to human activities. They are also used to challenge and correct climate models, which are mostly based on the same theories used in weather forecast models.
This whole system of observation, theory and prediction is tested daily in forecast models and almost continuously in climate models. So, if you have no faith in the predictive capability of climate models, you should also discard your faith in weather forecasts and any other predictions based on Newtonian mechanics.
The earth has warmed nearly 0.8 degrees Celsius over the last century and we are confident that the biggest factor in this increase is the release of carbon dioxide from fossil fuel burning. It is almost certain that we will see a rise of two degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) before 2100, and a three-degree rise (5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) or higher is a possibility. The impacts over such a short period would be huge. The longer we put off corrective action, the more disruptive the outcome is likely to be.
It is my pleasure and duty as a scientist and civil servant to discuss the challenge of climate change with elected officials. My colleagues and I do our best to transmit what we know and what we think is likely to happen.
The facts and accepted theories are fundamental to understanding climate change, and they are too important to get wrong or trivialize. Some difficult decisions lie ahead for us humans. We should debate our options armed with the best information and ideas that science can provide.
Piers J. Sellers is the acting director of earth science at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center.
http://nyti.ms/1B4PU64
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2014 - 05:38am PT
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The NYT editorial opens thusly:
I’m a climate scientist and a former astronaut. Not surprisingly, I have a deep respect for well-tested theories and facts. In the climate debate, these things have a way of getting blurred in political discussions.
The Chief opens his response to the piece like this:
Yet, Democrat Leadership is endorsing building Oil Pipelines across our Homeland to export them "fossil fuels" throughout the globe to be burned and then emitted into the atmosphere....
It's like two worlds. There's reality, and then there's the world The Chief inhabits. He's responding to the NYT piece, but, well... not really.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 13, 2014 - 07:09am PT
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Yup Sketch, surely appears obvious that the PEOPLE feel the exact same way as I, you and a couple others here do.
if you're basing how people 'feel' on that map, be sure to ignore the populations of all 'them' red states. Anti scientism whackadoodle nut jobs per square mile would be a more reality based measure. and would look something like this....
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 13, 2014 - 07:15am PT
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Are you bible thumpers still babbling on with your climate change denying lunacy? Go away...maybe back to the Middle Ages.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 13, 2014 - 07:29am PT
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Personally I believe the the whack jobs running this fantasy green utopian circus are some of the worst criminals inhabiting the planet. If their vision , and often stated agenda, runs its course it will result in genocide and environmental disaster on a heretofore unseen level as the culled do not go silently into that long night.
The people are awake to this, the politicians supporting the scam are suffering the consequences, more and more, globally. We need to start seeing some prosecutions against the worst perps or face the neccessity of nuremberg type proceedings later.
Hang em, hang em high.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Nov 13, 2014 - 07:30am PT
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Nov 13, 2014 - 07:37am PT
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It's to show you and TGT how averages work, Sketch.
When the temps drop in Wawaguna, the temps rise in Wawawunda
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Nov 13, 2014 - 07:52am PT
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They don't Sketch. The 'pause' increased the long term warming rate.
That's the problem when one cherry picks.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Nov 13, 2014 - 09:00am PT
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Thanks for the weather report, TGT.
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 13, 2014 - 09:39am PT
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Again, why did it exclude data of the last 13 years for the averages?
Because it is standard practice to compare the temperature against the average of a base period that often ended some years ago? It really doesn't make much sense to change the base period very often.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Nov 13, 2014 - 10:01am PT
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So what?
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Nov 13, 2014 - 10:08am PT
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LOL, Sketch.
The different datasets don't all use the same base period.
That doesn't change the trend or overall temp gain.
RSS goes to 1998, UAH goes to 2010.
Perhaps you can explain why it has some significance for you?
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raymond phule
climber
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Nov 13, 2014 - 10:10am PT
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How often should these averages be updated? Every five years? Every ten years?
I don't know and I really don't care much. Why does it matter?
The NSIDC uses a 1981-2010 average for its Sea Ice extent data. I think it was updated in 2011.
and hadcrut uses 1961-1990.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 13, 2014 - 11:16am PT
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Look Frosty, when you have many of the worlds greatest scientists examining the studies/model predictives and determining the CAGW theory Invalid, when you have the upper eschelon of climate scientism , Kevin Trenberth , publically stating GCM's in no way represent the reality of climate, you don't have to rely on intuition or years of study to determine the facts for yourself.
Take the frost covered blinders off you lazy dumbass and venture past the comfort zone of your blog conditioning. What a cantankerous azzhole you are Frosty.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Nov 13, 2014 - 11:23am PT
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We are all ears, Sketch.
What is the significance of including or not including the last 13 years in a baseline reference period?
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crankster
Trad climber
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Nov 13, 2014 - 10:12pm PT
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If the climate change denying crazies get their way...
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 14, 2014 - 06:41am PT
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or this
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SuperTopo on the Web
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