OT Just how bad is the drought? Just curious OT

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 1529 - 1548 of total 1730 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

G_Gnome

Trad climber

Cali

Dec 19, 2016 - 01:29pm PT

Measurement from lower down but it looks like it got pretty high.

http://www.cnrfc.noaa.gov/graphicalRVF.php?id=SAMC1

EdBannister

Mountain climber

13,000 feet

Dec 19, 2016 - 06:51pm PT

http://www.cnrfc.noaa.gov/obsRiver.php?id=POHC1

Here is the last ten day hydrology for the Merced River at Pohono Bridge,
(downstream bridge of the loop road in Yosemite Valley)

note Friday last week was the highest discharge rate since 2011

.... enjoy.

and oh yeah...

Urban water use in California is 8.8% of the state's water resource.
Urban use is defined as residential and industrial other than agriculture.
So if your home and your business, and everyone else, cut use by 25%, the result is only 2% savings of the State's water budget.

Agricultural consumption is measured use of delivered water, 52% of the state's water resource.
The "All American Canal" which delivers water to the Coachella Water District to largely grow lettuce and dates, delivers only 10% of the water it removes from the colorado river, because for most of it's length it is not lined, it is a ditch in the dirt.

mouse from merced

Trad climber

The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.

Dec 20, 2016 - 02:07am PT

" 'Food is a national security issue. When are we going to start treating food like the national security issue it is?' he [Rep. Jim Costa] said."

Read more here: http://www.mercedsunstar.com/news/article121758753.html#storylink=cpy

Salmon are food. They are not raised on fish farms, though, and you have to get up early as a farmer to even find them, let alone catch them. Or pay some charter captain to take your rich-ass Hemingway butt to where you can toss metal overboard several pounds at a time to trade for fish flesh that the Japanese would slaughter indiscriminately and in great numbers with no regard for our "crop" anyway.

Very expensive pistachio nuts vs. very expensive fish tacos.

"California feeds the world, and we like it, uh-huh, uh-huh."

Bullshyt, cowboy.

I told the Channel 24 KMPH reporter that this question of water distribution is never going to be settled to anyone's satisfaction.

"It's tragic about the pelagic, but it's God's design, not ours. Our species reigns supreme. F everyone else's. I gotta feed my own first."

"Sure we have lox, sweetie. You want some lox? No problem, sugar, if you can pay the state-mandated 150% water sur-tax. What say? The fish tacos? Same deal, just 100% sur-tax. Yes, sir, a burger and fries."

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Dec 29, 2016 - 09:37am PT

Urban water use in California is 8.8% of the state's water resource.
Urban use is defined as residential and industrial other than agriculture.
So if your home and your business, and everyone else, cut use by 25%, the result is only 2% savings of the State's water budget.

This is true, but the inter-relatedness is complex.

So, for example, pumping the water over mountains into LA consumes about 20% of all the power used in the state. Cutting water use by 25 percent would also result in a 5 percent cut in all power used, state-wide. Seems small, but a big step in moving away from coal.

It's also worth noting that for many communities in the central valley and along the coast, their approach is to use water as usual, until they have just about run out, then go all draconian. If they'd been aggressive early, they'd have been much better off.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Dec 29, 2016 - 09:59am PT

DMT... cool photo.

The Solution, IMHO is to build a big ass water transport system.... first from the Columbia River to Lake Shasta... its only about 200 miles.

And then a Really big ass one to get water from Canada to the upper Colorado River and down the Front Range.... vola problem solved.

Water Water everywhere.

screw all the other wide eye methods.. this is a proven way to ensure progress.

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Dec 29, 2016 - 11:03am PT

And then a Really big ass one to get water from Canada to the upper Colorado River and down the Front Range.... vola problem solved.

Dude, you are, like, sooo last century.

Google NAWAPA (or NAWAPTA), and you'll learn that the Army Corps of Engineers was all over this in the 1950s.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Dec 29, 2016 - 01:21pm PT

or being saved by Wonder Woman and Miracle Whip?

(oh, it was a lasso... but a good one for this topic!
pass the muster...)

G_Gnome

Trad climber

Cali

Dec 29, 2016 - 01:54pm PT

If the rest of the world expects California to keep feeding them then they will ultimately need to insure that we have the water to do so. The same goes for the great plains. It is probably vastly less expensive both monetarily and environmentally than most of the other solutions to world hunger.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Dec 29, 2016 - 01:54pm PT

The most interesting concept to me is the export of California water to the markets that Agri-business ships their products to... this water is effectively removed from California.

One wonders if the trends to "localvorism" might curtail, somewhat, the market for California produce... and the possibility of reduced access to international markets might make reduce the demand for the products.

Another area that the people of California subsidize agri-business is in electrical generation capacity, which has to include the demand for aquifer pumping. This pumping represents a very large fraction of the total electricity used by the state, and is episodic, depending on surface water availability restricted by climate and by regulation. The entire state pays the bill for that additional capacity in their electric price rates.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Dec 29, 2016 - 03:05pm PT

All... if you look at the tiny canal that brings water to LA and the larger one that is the California Water project.... those combined would not make a dent in the Columbia River.

DMT ... just think about it, for a second, don't you wish to see and end to world hunger?

And California is one of the only places in the world where we can grow stuff 365 days a year.

Humans have come this far because we manipulate our environment.

It is who we are.

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Dec 29, 2016 - 03:49pm PT

The Solution, IMHO is to build a big ass water transport system.... first from the Columbia River to Lake Shasta... its only about 200 miles.

And then a Really big ass one to get water from Canada to the upper Colorado River and down the Front Range.... vola problem solved.

Water Water everywhere.

screw all the other wide eye methods.. this is a proven way to ensure progress.

The problem is all the mountains the water has to be pumped over.

On top of which, I see nothing that says that either Oregon or Canada is interested in selling their water to Ca.

Interesting fact: What does water through the projects cost? Answer: nothing. The citizens already own the water. The cost is for the infrastructure and cost of pumping. The water from Oregon or Canada would NOT be free.

mouse from merced

Trad climber

The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.

Dec 29, 2016 - 04:21pm PT

Move the crude water on the surface, store it in the aquifers being emptied by the aquifer users, charging them X-amount based on a universal rate system.

If the Canadians approve in the first place, of course. What're THEY gonna do with it besides make beer?

This silly plan was on the stove when I was in grammar school. They couldn't get it on the boil then, why does ANYONE WITH A CLUE think it's a good idea now?

Mighty Hiker

climber

Outside the Asylum

Dec 29, 2016 - 04:59pm PT

Us Canuckleheads plan to use our water to fill our ditch. A ditch seems much more neighbourly than a wall, plus we can canoe on it in summer and skate on it in winter. We will in fact move Yosemite to just south of Vancouver, as a start to our ditch.

The economics of desalination beat the notion(s) of diverting water from the Columbia River, and even James Bay (!) to the southern US. It would also likely have considerably less environmental impact.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Dec 29, 2016 - 05:22pm PT

This silly plan was on the stove when I was in grammar school. They couldn't get it on the boil then, why does ANYONE WITH A CLUE think it's a good idea now?

Mouse back when you were in grammar school the Holocene epoch was just starting and the giant glaciers were just starting to melt and there was water everywhere. ......

I bet when Mulholland and his crew first proposed the water grab from the Owens Valley.... there were plenty of skeptics.

And I don't worry about the people in Canada... I have found that anything is for sale with people, if the price is right.

but don't worry.... if they do not wish to sell... they have plenty of water in Texas.

Look Im just tossing this out on the table, now that we have a great man coming into the White House anything is possible. :>)

Remember... you can not just localize your food,no mater how badly you wish, no limes grow in Nebraska.

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Dec 29, 2016 - 09:22pm PT

So you are going to pump the water from texas OVER the Rockies, then OVER the Sierra??

G_Gnome

Trad climber

Cali

Dec 30, 2016 - 08:57am PT

South, go south where there are no mountains. Not that I think Texas has enough to spare.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Dec 30, 2016 - 08:58am PT

Ken M .... next time your heading out the I10 ... about 20 miles east of Indio... you will find the "General Patton Museum" check it out, its well worth the $5 admission. Lots of weaponry, Uniforms and such. The part that I love has nothing to do with WW2.

Its the giant scale model- 3D relief map made by students at Cal Tech back in the early 1930's...its about 80 x 80 feet. Looking at it one can see all of the mountain ranges and deep valleys in the California Desert east and north of LA. This was made so the best route for the Colorado River Aqueduct could be engineered.... thats where we get most of the water for Orange County, San Diego County and Riverside County. You can also see one of the up-hill pumping plants located about 4 miles away... yes water is pumped UPHILL. Now I hope you can understand the concept that we have been pumping water UPHILL oh .... since the ROMAN times at least. Its not a new hi-tech concept by no means. Also remember this... without these futuristic projects... one is having it 100th birthday soon.... life as we know it would not exist in Southern California or anyplace else in California.

So yea to answer the OP.... we are having some rain now and that is helping out with the drought.... but we all live in a desert and that includes everybody who lives in the American West from the north east Rockies to eastern Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma and New Mexico and Mexico.

If we could add a bunch of water into the Colorado River and run a bunch down the front range to soak the growing populations of Denver and replenish the Ogallala Aquifer we would be making progress toward a solution to the "problem" of our Dry West.

EDIT: G_Gome.... when it rains 13 inches in a day by Houston.. the water could be found. Texas is sort of like plan B.....

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Dec 30, 2016 - 09:11am PT

There are huge secondary costs to irrigating desert lands. The lessons from Mesopotamia are being relearned right now in the Central Vallry and other dry locations across the western half of the U.S. Aquifers are collapsing, rivers are dying, extinctions threaten all around.

DMT.... true dat. I say its in large part because we only extract water we never put water back into the ground.... if we didn't need to pump so much we would not have the issues to point out and we could keep river flows at the point were they need to be to keep the river environment healthy.

Heck ... this is just something I tossed out there... when I was in college I had a professor whose main focus was the way people have manipulated the environment in the American West, both success and failure.