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Doug Robinson

Trad climber

Santa Cruz

Apr 20, 2008 - 03:09pm PT

Things you didn't know about Sean Jones:

He sports a YES tat.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Apr 20, 2008 - 07:40pm PT

Karl,

What's with the harshing on coz for having fixed lines on the FFA? Is that supposed to equate to rap bolting? Those guys were trying to get it done on weekends, during extreme heat.

It seems clear enough to me that Scott and Sean are not used to all the miscommunication that can happen in online forums like this one (OK, to be frank, they are forum noobs - they are reacting to some harsh words like we all did when getting started with this weird online thing). They should meet in the real world and they would probably get a good understanding of each other's perspective. It wouldn't mean they would agree on whether the style of bolting Growing Up was good or bad or whatever. Just to understand each other's point of view.

marky

climber

Apr 20, 2008 - 07:57pm PT

superb post

Doug Robinson

Trad climber

Santa Cruz

Apr 20, 2008 - 07:59pm PT

Oops, sorry dude!

I dropped your genertor righ over Nevada Falls.

Just trying to help...

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Apr 20, 2008 - 08:29pm PT

Clint wrote

"What's with the harshing on coz for having fixed lines on the FFA? Is that supposed to equate to rap bolting? Those guys were trying to get it done on weekends, during extreme heat. "

I wasn't meaning to be harsh.

I think it's fair that since Coz started this thread and, after hearing all sides of the issue, is still coming down hard on the route, that he justify his own route and tactics in light of this strict ethic of climbing a route without bringing it down to size with various engineering tricks.

It's my contention that fixed lines, like Deucy said, are engineering from the bottom like rap bolting is engineering from the top. If a free climb hasn't been climbed without fixed ropes, that's an important point if we're arguing about bringing the stone down to size.

The other point being, sorry to repeat myself, one person has their excuses for their route while dismissing the other guy's excuse for their route. One person's brand of "cheating" is shared by more people so it's more OK, than some newer brand of cheating.

I'm not saying they are equal, just having the discussion about why, if the ethic is so strict, didn't they just go climb their super classic route in a continous push? Check out the topo posted from another thread. Similar to the fact that GU was done in two sections, imagine the diiference in Jugging most, if not all, of the 5.12 before the leadouts.

Peace

Karl

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Apr 20, 2008 - 08:45pm PT

"So I am wanting someone to help us haul our generator to Half Dome! Anyone? "

Ethics dictates hauling your own generator (or hire a mule from the concession)
also, don't run the electric cord from the summit or the base, fixed lines are cheating.

The Old Skool is rite, this generation doesn't get it!

bob d'antonio

Trad climber

Taos, NM

Apr 20, 2008 - 10:35pm PT

Everyone and their mother has an opinion on what you did wrong on a first ascent...and everyone and their mother could have done it better.

Funny how that works.

To answer the Doctor...I put up a new 13a-b slab route with my climbing partner of 20 years...4 pitches...12b...13a-b...12a and 5.9...no matter how we did it...someone would complain...or do better.

deuce4

climber

Hobart, Australia

Apr 20, 2008 - 11:27pm PT

Karl writes:
"It's my contention that fixed lines, like Deucy said, are engineering from the bottom like rap bolting is engineering from the top."

Hang on, there might be a logical inconsistency in your quote of my statement. Even if fixed ropes (whether from top or bottom) = sieging, that does not necessarily equate to "engineering from bottom" = "engineering from top". There are obviously other qualifiers at work with the second statement.

DR-reagarding multipitch FAs, probably Autobahn is most relevant to this discussion, though on that one, Cole and Reno had previously climbed the first 10 pitches, then I was recruited by Cole to get through the final bit (I remember Cole shouted out, "Bring on the Ringer!", when I got over the roof on the 5.11+ lead--it was some pretty good psyche at the time).

Other than that, I climbed most of the 5.11c (or easier) Yosemite long routes in Clint's list at http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/longhf.htm

(umm, methinks this thread might be heading into an extreme chest-beating testorestone fest--sorry to add to that...)

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Apr 20, 2008 - 11:35pm PT

Deucy wrote

"There are obviously other qualifiers at work with the second statement. "

Sure, agreed. Sieging is different than Rap Bolting. The question is how different and it's open for debate here.

Folks shouldn't have knee jerk reaction and just say "It's always been the case with big walls and so it's Ok" We're talking about a free route here and it could be argued that in the free-climbing game, doing a continuous ascent is the gold standard of actually climbing it in the good style exemplified by the high-minded statements people have made on this thread.

Once we get into various forms of cheating, we enter a big grey area and GU is part of that grey area. If Sean goes back and does his continuous ascent, it will mean something.

Peace

Karl

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Apr 20, 2008 - 11:56pm PT

The Doctor asks: I was just wondering, out of the last 1665 posters, how many of you have ever put up a multi-pitch FA, any where, in any style. As far as new routes in The Valley it seems like Sean Jones is about the only climber left with the vision, talent and motivation to make it happen.

I just got back from the Valley after helping ablegabel put up a route, with alternative finishes... these are crack lines with a 20 minute approach which will probably not be done again, but they are great pitches, 5.10... and were put up in great style (we just climbed them). Not even that mungie, but fresh with crumblies as a lot of routes are. They'd clean up real nice with a few more climbers.

Perhaps the only violation of the "best style" was that we brushed the best line a bit after climbing it (I did when I was being lowered, as Eric had requested it and sent me up with the brush on my follow).

There are a lot of routes put up in the Valley, not just by Sean Jones. I haven't actually climbed any Sean Jones routes because I don't have an information about them, and from what I've heard, they are probably more difficult than I would venture out on. What little I've heard, people like them.

We ran into Jay Wood on Saturday morning as we were scouting locations to shoot pictures of cliffs... we asked him what he was thinking of doing and he said Dream Easy. Eric put that route up earlier this year, I think I wrote about how we did it earlier in this thread... a nice 5.8 which seems to have become a little bit popular. Who knew...

It is one of dozens of climbs I've done with Eric, you can search the STForum to see other trip reports from these outings.

Jaybro

Social climber

The West

Apr 21, 2008 - 12:21am PT

"I was just wondering, out of the last 1665 posters, how many of you have ever put up a multi-pitch FA, any where, in any style."

Um, I have. I don't think any of them are in areas your guidebooks cover, as far as I can remember, though.

I don't think there was anything lacking in the style of the 'The Passionate Life' .11 wide @ Balch Camp flake; Onsight, free, no drilling... though we used existing bolts to rap...

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Apr 21, 2008 - 01:05am PT

I done dun a cuple/three of them multi-pitch new route thingies,
--and I definitely beat my chest when I topped out.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, Ca

Apr 21, 2008 - 01:13am PT

By Jupiter, There are Rings Around Uranus
Courtright Reservoir with Herb Laeger.

6 pitches. 5.11d. Stanced, on sight.

Luck of the draw I led the hard pitches.

BLD

climber

excramento,CA

Apr 21, 2008 - 01:24am PT

Good evening Tacos,

I thought I would let you all know some bad news. This afternoon while bouldering along the Merced River Sean was bitten by a rattle snake. From what I understand his hand and the snake were in the same crack at the same time. He was air lifted to Sonora. That is all I know right now.

Blair...

madbolter1

Big Wall climber

Walla Walla, WA

Apr 21, 2008 - 01:24am PT

Well, I hate to make a bad situation worse, but since this thread started, I hiked up to the top and rapped down the top several pitches of the route.

There is evidence of chipping. It looks like DR or Sean was beating all over with a hammer to hide the evidence, but the chipping remains for all to see.

Considering the other bogus tactics DR and Sean resorted to in order to establish the route, it's obvious that they chipped holds as well. And nobody else has been on the route between when they were chipping and when I saw it! Seems like they employed every tactic necessary to bring the route down to their level, and then invented this "being considerate" story later to obscure the fact that they simply couldn't rise to the level that the sacred rock entreated of them!

While it SEEMS that they have been forthright in this thread, in fact, they have simply been hiding the most horrible facts! The chipping makes it clear that no matter their past reputations, they guys are just butchers!

Getting older, looking for a glory route, even trying to make a movie of it, it turns out that there is no depth too dank and murky for them to plumb in their quest for recognition at any cost to the sacred rock. Butchers, I tell you, BUTCHERS! My grandma could have done the route better, and from the ground up too!

DR and Sean, I defy you to deny it! It is obvious to anybody with half a brain what really happened up there! For SHAME! You will never live down this legacy of infamy!

BLD

climber

excramento,CA

Apr 21, 2008 - 01:27am PT

Madbolter,

What kind of hangers did they use?

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, Ca

Apr 21, 2008 - 01:28am PT

Another one, even better due to it's real back country nature.

Depairadoes.
Gorge of Depair (Kings Canyon in case you don't know)

9 Pitches. Two are .11+, one is .12a.

This was a ground up ascent which took a few tries due to injuries and such (Keesee was seriously wounded and we were out there.) On the FA Chelsea Griffie and I did a no falls ascent. I am proud of it. Go do it.

edit: i see i am intermixed with another conversation. hope the bad news is not true.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Apr 21, 2008 - 01:30am PT

Blair,

Ouch, sorry to hear that about Sean. And airlifted? That sounds bad, like he took a bad fall from the boulder after being bitten.

Please keep us posted when you hear more.