Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Nov 30, 2016 - 09:36am PT
|
Hilmar Youths' Water Board Experience
jholland@modbee.com
SACRAMENTO
A state panel heard arguments Tuesday for providing more river water for fish – and from Hilmar FFA members who said this would devastate farmers.
The State Water Resources Control Board launched its formal hearing on a proposed doubling of flows on the lower Stanislaus, Tuolumne and Merced rivers each February through June.
Fishing and environmental groups had most of the scheduled time, and they used it to contend that salmon and other fish have suffered from diversions to farms and cities.
The Hilmar High School students took advantage of the brief slots for the general public to warn of the consequences: Less water for almonds, dairy feed and other crops. More pumping of already-stressed groundwater. Less income for truckers who haul farm products and for one parent who makes his living spreading manure.
“My family (is) fourth-generation farmers in the Central Valley, and I would like to grow up to be a fifth-generation farmer,” student Ethan Jones told the board. “However, I am worried that it may not be possible.”
Hilmar sent about 25 of the 400 members in its chapter of FFA, originally known as Future Farmers of America.
“Our community revolves around farms and dairies,” member Derek Rios said. “Without them, our community will be nothing.”
The hearing will move to Stockton on Dec. 16, to Merced on Dec. 19 and to Modesto on Dec. 20. The board will hold a final session in Sacramento on Jan. 3 and take written comment until Jan. 17. It could make a final decision in July.
The plan calls for boosting the rivers to 40 percent of the natural flow in pre-dam times. The three rivers combined are at about 20 percent now, but the Stanislaus already is under a somewhat higher standard.
J.D. Richey, a fishing guide in the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta, supported a large increase in flows.
“My industry is in disrepair right now – total collapse,” he said. “The main reason for that is lack of water.”
Environmental leaders said the low flows lead to high water temperatures and other problems for salmon and steelhead trout, which both travel between the rivers and the Pacific Ocean. Kyle Jones of Sierra Club California urged a 60 percent level.
The water board’s staff projects a 14 percent drop in river supplies in average years, and 38 percent in “critically dry” years. Farmers, city water suppliers and other critics say the state has underestimated the lost income and jobs.
“We’re looking at probably 800 small farms disappearing if this gets implemented, if this doesn’t get changed,” said Gail Delihant, director of California government affairs for Western Growers.
Danny Merkley, director of water resources for the California Farm Bureau Federation, also blasted the plan. “This proposal is a taking, and it’s taking legal water rights away,” he said.
The upcoming hearings will include scheduled speakers from cities, farm groups and other people in each of the three affected counties.
http://www.modbee.com/news/article117852048.html#storylink=cpy
|
|
rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
|
The Santa Clara river was flowing along the 14 freeway for the 1st time in years but the water was black from all the ash from the Sand Fire...and stunk something fierce. It smelled like after a house burns down, that wet sulfur ash stink, similar to a swamp.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2016 - 09:40am PT
|
Love those sneaky rider bills...Thanks a bunch Feinsteen...
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2016 - 10:43am PT
|
to provide more water for LA
Not true. We don't want it, and are planning for a future without it.
(but it's nice to have a target, eh?)
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 17, 2016 - 11:00am PT
|
I was having a conversation last night with a friend, on the issue of desal.
I mentioned that it is an extreme technology, based upon very energy intensive usage, that makes it a less desirable alternative, due to cost.
He couldn't understand what I was saying, as he thought that if you used solar, the energy is essentially free. I couldn't seem to get past that.
So I sent him this:
http://energyinnovation.org/2015/02/07/levelized-cost-of-energy/
|
|
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
|
Dec 18, 2016 - 09:41am PT
|
I read that the American at Chili Bar (not sure which fork, I'm not a boater) was going to be running around 20k CFS. Sounds like a fish story, anyone see it with their own eyes? I can find the link if anyone cares.
|
|
EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
|
|
|
Dec 19, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
|
http://www.cnrfc.noaa.gov/obsRiver.php?id=POHC1
Here is the last ten day hydrology for the Merced River at Pohono Bridge,
(downstream bridge of the loop road in Yosemite Valley)
note Friday last week was the highest discharge rate since 2011
.... enjoy.
and oh yeah...
Urban water use in California is 8.8% of the state's water resource.
Urban use is defined as residential and industrial other than agriculture.
So if your home and your business, and everyone else, cut use by 25%, the result is only 2% savings of the State's water budget.
Agricultural consumption is measured use of delivered water, 52% of the state's water resource.
The "All American Canal" which delivers water to the Coachella Water District to largely grow lettuce and dates, delivers only 10% of the water it removes from the colorado river, because for most of it's length it is not lined, it is a ditch in the dirt.
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2016 - 02:07am PT
|
" 'Food is a national security issue. When are we going to start treating food like the national security issue it is?' he [Rep. Jim Costa] said."
Read more here: http://www.mercedsunstar.com/news/article121758753.html#storylink=cpy
Salmon are food. They are not raised on fish farms, though, and you have to get up early as a farmer to even find them, let alone catch them. Or pay some charter captain to take your rich-ass Hemingway butt to where you can toss metal overboard several pounds at a time to trade for fish flesh that the Japanese would slaughter indiscriminately and in great numbers with no regard for our "crop" anyway.
Very expensive pistachio nuts vs. very expensive fish tacos.
"California feeds the world, and we like it, uh-huh, uh-huh."
Bullshyt, cowboy.
I told the Channel 24 KMPH reporter that this question of water distribution is never going to be settled to anyone's satisfaction.
"It's tragic about the pelagic, but it's God's design, not ours. Our species reigns supreme. F everyone else's. I gotta feed my own first."
"Sure we have lox, sweetie. You want some lox? No problem, sugar, if you can pay the state-mandated 150% water sur-tax. What say? The fish tacos? Same deal, just 100% sur-tax. Yes, sir, a burger and fries."
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 09:37am PT
|
Urban water use in California is 8.8% of the state's water resource.
Urban use is defined as residential and industrial other than agriculture.
So if your home and your business, and everyone else, cut use by 25%, the result is only 2% savings of the State's water budget.
This is true, but the inter-relatedness is complex.
So, for example, pumping the water over mountains into LA consumes about 20% of all the power used in the state. Cutting water use by 25 percent would also result in a 5 percent cut in all power used, state-wide. Seems small, but a big step in moving away from coal.
It's also worth noting that for many communities in the central valley and along the coast, their approach is to use water as usual, until they have just about run out, then go all draconian. If they'd been aggressive early, they'd have been much better off.
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 09:59am PT
|
DMT... cool photo.
The Solution, IMHO is to build a big ass water transport system.... first from the Columbia River to Lake Shasta... its only about 200 miles.
And then a Really big ass one to get water from Canada to the upper Colorado River and down the Front Range.... vola problem solved.
Water Water everywhere.
screw all the other wide eye methods.. this is a proven way to ensure progress.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 11:03am PT
|
And then a Really big ass one to get water from Canada to the upper Colorado River and down the Front Range.... vola problem solved.
Dude, you are, like, sooo last century.
Google NAWAPA (or NAWAPTA), and you'll learn that the Army Corps of Engineers was all over this in the 1950s.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
|
or being saved by Wonder Woman and Miracle Whip?
(oh, it was a lasso... but a good one for this topic!
pass the muster...)
|
|
G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
|
If the rest of the world expects California to keep feeding them then they will ultimately need to insure that we have the water to do so. The same goes for the great plains. It is probably vastly less expensive both monetarily and environmentally than most of the other solutions to world hunger.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
|
The most interesting concept to me is the export of California water to the markets that Agri-business ships their products to... this water is effectively removed from California.
One wonders if the trends to "localvorism" might curtail, somewhat, the market for California produce... and the possibility of reduced access to international markets might make reduce the demand for the products.
Another area that the people of California subsidize agri-business is in electrical generation capacity, which has to include the demand for aquifer pumping. This pumping represents a very large fraction of the total electricity used by the state, and is episodic, depending on surface water availability restricted by climate and by regulation. The entire state pays the bill for that additional capacity in their electric price rates.
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
|
All... if you look at the tiny canal that brings water to LA and the larger one that is the California Water project.... those combined would not make a dent in the Columbia River.
DMT ... just think about it, for a second, don't you wish to see and end to world hunger?
And California is one of the only places in the world where we can grow stuff 365 days a year.
Humans have come this far because we manipulate our environment.
It is who we are.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
|
The Solution, IMHO is to build a big ass water transport system.... first from the Columbia River to Lake Shasta... its only about 200 miles.
And then a Really big ass one to get water from Canada to the upper Colorado River and down the Front Range.... vola problem solved.
Water Water everywhere.
screw all the other wide eye methods.. this is a proven way to ensure progress.
The problem is all the mountains the water has to be pumped over.
On top of which, I see nothing that says that either Oregon or Canada is interested in selling their water to Ca.
Interesting fact: What does water through the projects cost? Answer: nothing. The citizens already own the water. The cost is for the infrastructure and cost of pumping. The water from Oregon or Canada would NOT be free.
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Dec 29, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
|
Move the crude water on the surface, store it in the aquifers being emptied by the aquifer users, charging them X-amount based on a universal rate system.
If the Canadians approve in the first place, of course. What're THEY gonna do with it besides make beer?
This silly plan was on the stove when I was in grammar school. They couldn't get it on the boil then, why does ANYONE WITH A CLUE think it's a good idea now?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!