Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 05:46pm PT
|
You have only to read the many intemperate posts on internet fora to realize people are having trouble these days. It is not limited to newly post pubescent individuals. The phenomenon is so pervasive you can explain almost any behavior and still stay well within three sigma.
Edit: On second thought the above post is intemperate. I think six sigma is a better estimate.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 05:56pm PT
|
WTF Ksolem. 20 kids, 3 - 11 bullets per kid. Do the math. Are you really, with a perfectly straight face, going to tell us you could have done that [sic] with a revolver?
Bob, please take my entire post in context. I know he riddled the kids with bullets. He did not need to do that to achieve the same end result. Can you not see that I am asking a question about these AR style guns, do they embolden these killers?
I personally do not want to own AR type guns because they put people off. I'm a bit old school and I have found that if I'm out in the country with a well finished traditional looking gun folks don't blink an eye, but if my buddy has a military style gun folks get nervous. And my nice looking rifle is way more powerful.
|
|
aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 05:57pm PT
|
HERE IS WHAT HAPPENED IN AUSTRALIA WHEN THEY HAD A MASS SHOOTING, AND HAD A CALL-IN FOR AUTOMATIC WEAPONS:
"On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia’s history.
Twelve days later, Australia’s government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.
At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia. The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.
What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since."
SO, SEEMS TO ME WE COULD DO SOMETHING SIMILAR
|
|
monolith
climber
albany,ca
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 05:59pm PT
|
That's why there were so few wounded, KS. It was because he could easily put 3 to 11 bullets into each victim. Gun type matters.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 06:11pm PT
|
Monolith, this will be my last post on this thread, because the act of violence against these children makes me sick and I do not enjoy the discussion. I've just tried to make a few simple points here.
A person with a revolver who was intent on killing those children could and almost certainly would have been able to do so.
Yes the Bushmaster made it "easy" for the guy to go berserk.
My question about this whole thing, which seems to have been overshadowed by my point that it could have been done with much a lesser gun, is does the military style of weapon become a part of a role playing scenario in a killing like this?
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 06:25pm PT
|
What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since."
How many times to we have to tolerate contributions from the "Reality based" nutcases???!!!
I can imagine having an argument that being free to own guns is worth tolerating more deaths every year and a mass killing now and then. I'd make that argument for cars myself.
But there's a lot of denial that gun control might help, and I don't buy that
Peace
Karl
|
|
monolith
climber
albany,ca
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 06:30pm PT
|
Anderson said he could do the same with any hunting rifle, now KS says he could do it with a revolver.
Simply not true. He had 3 guns. He chose to use the Bushmaster for a reason.
Why make it so easy?
|
|
kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 06:34pm PT
|
He chose the Bushmater for a reason.
Even a f*#king nutjob knows which tool to pick for that job
|
|
monolith
climber
albany,ca
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 06:42pm PT
|
Did I say all carbine configurations?
And yeah, it does matter how many clips you need. Give the kids whatever edge you can.
|
|
monolith
climber
albany,ca
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 06:46pm PT
|
How far can a kid run in 2.5 seconds?
Can a kid dart around a corner in 2.5 seconds?
How about 10 kids darting in different directions in 2.5 seconds?
He could screw up in any of those clip changes as well.
BTW, CA bans detachable magazine in combo with other features. The 'bullet button' gets around that but still adds more seconds and more possibility of screw-up. Likely the 'bullet button' will be banned as well.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 06:53pm PT
|
I see, Ron. So you admit that you are an international illegal gunrunner.
Ok.
“Why would a woman who had a son like this, who clearly had serious issues, keep assault rifles in the house and teach him how to shoot them?”
But of course, your response is that she did nothing illegal, Ron.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
|
Tom: get a grip folks
You're right someone needs to, you've obviously lost yours.
|
|
kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
|
Bruce, Blahring should be chiming in anytime and should be able to take care of that one.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
|
Even a brief perusal of Crimpie's wiki link for state gun laws shows there is next to no effect oversight, regulation, or management of weapons in the U.S.
A couple of states have a few half-hearted and half-ass attempts at restrictions and in the rest the NRA has basically worked to insure there is next to no oversight at all.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 07:23pm PT
|
Sucked back in oh well...
Did you or did you not notice the post at the top of the page by Aspendoughy?
Yes.
Did you see my posts up-thread documenting a nearly equal drop in the rate of gun murders in the US from 1998 to 2010? Our rate is down by more than one half in 20 years.
Yes our murder rate is higher than Australia, it always has been, but it is shrinking at about the same rate.
|
|
bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 07:41pm PT
|
#RonAnderson: It's gotta be work typing with one hand and jacking off with the other.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
|
#RonAnderson: It's gotta be work typing with one hand and jacking off with the other.
you seem to do that and balance a glass of whiskey all at the same time? talented you must be....
|
|
lubbockclimber
Trad climber
lubbock,tx
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 09:18pm PT
|
Fuk gun control. If we outlaw guns only outlaws will have em.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Dec 20, 2012 - 09:19pm PT
|
gun fatalities are rising again after a low point in 2000
Not by rate.
There is a difference between the overall # of deaths and the rate. For example if the population increases by x percent but the gun deaths increase by .75x the rate has decreased. Take a look at gunpolicy.org (not a pro gun site by any means, but I think a fair one.) FWIW I'm not looking at suicides. Tragic as they may be, if someone wants to off them self I think that is their own business and should not be a consideration in the gun control debate.
FWIW I am not against "reasonable" gun control. I would suggest that part of the problem is that we already have very poorly thought out and essentially unreasonable laws. By that I mean that our gun control laws are unnecessarily complicated and not well based on fact. For example, as I speculated earlier, if military style weapons are an attractant to young men like the monster in CT., and this can be demonstrated, then I say ban them all. The rest of us normal folks can have an equal but less cool looking gun to fend off the bad guys or punch holes in paper..
DMT, I read and appreciate your post, and you are asking good questions. I said earlier that I am done with this thread but I keep coming back...:-(
My response to your question will take more time than I have now (gotta have food ready for the Barbara in a bit here...) Depending on the tack this thread takes you will see my response here tomorrow or I'll use a PM. I think you are at a crux of the whole issue and I don't want to go off half cocked, so to speak...
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!