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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 27, 2012 - 11:17am PT
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NO, don't digress with inane fool drool. Try to answer the question.
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new world order-
climber
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May 27, 2012 - 11:21am PT
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philo, you're part of the matrix. You don't want to understand.
A mind, like a parachute, works better when it's open.
peace out.
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Reeotch
Trad climber
4 Corners Area
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May 27, 2012 - 11:27am PT
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Romney already said he would invade
Obama has said he would not invade at this time
Dr. F, the key words in that quote are "at this time".
Obama is no different than the republican war hawks in this respect.
"We all prefer to resolve this issue diplomatically," Obama said in an address at the pro-Israel lobby group AIPAC's policy conference in Washington. "Having said that, Iran’s leaders should have no doubt about the resolve of the United States, just as they should not doubt Israel’s sovereign right to make its own decisions about what is required to meet its security needs. I have said that when it comes to preventing Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon, I will take no options off the table, and I mean what I say."
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/obama-all-options-remain-on-the-table-to-prevent-a-nuclear-iran-1.416405
"All options remain on the table" is a euphemism for "we reserve the right to invade and/or nuke your azz"
Left and right mean nothing anymore. Like new world order said, wake up.
They are diametrically opposed
The very definition of a left-right paradigm
I think you've been watching too much mainstream media spin.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 27, 2012 - 11:37am PT
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You guys are a hoot. You think you are the only ones with eyes wide open,
I have been well aware of the powerful forces involved since the 70s.
But what you don't acknowledge is the necessity to work with what you have to work with.
On a wall or mountain climb you may wish with all your heart that the gear was solid or the weather will hold or the runout not be terrifying. But you have to choose the options from the options you face at those times. Or go down, go home and shove your head in the sand.
There IS a difference between the two political parties and the outcomes they produce,
Choose.
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Reeotch
Trad climber
4 Corners Area
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May 27, 2012 - 11:47am PT
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It is a false choice!
Ron Paul (a republican) is now the only candidate for peace.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 27, 2012 - 11:49am PT
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Then by all means vote for him.
It isn't just your Right to vote it is your Responsibility.
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Reeotch
Trad climber
4 Corners Area
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May 27, 2012 - 11:52am PT
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Voting was revealed as useless back in 2000 . . .
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 27, 2012 - 12:00pm PT
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So Reeotch are you going to let that aggression stand.
RNC dirty tricks alone define a significant difference between the parties.
Do you remember how many people were telling Al Gore, the real winner of the election, to "give it up". Just because the sheeple let the election be stolen doesn't mean the system is a total sham.
Be vigilant, be aware, be informed, be involved, get off you ass and vote.
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Reeotch
Trad climber
4 Corners Area
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May 27, 2012 - 12:18pm PT
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So, what specific action on the part of the "sheeple" would have changed the outcome of Bush v. Gore. Mass Protests? Like the occupy movement?
Maybe if we all e-mailed our representatives?
Maybe if everybody just told the banks to take their debt and shove it?
We are given no meaningful choices in our political system.
It is like the electromagnetic spectrum: All we see is the visible light (roygbiv) despite the fact that this is only a small part of the entire spectrum from gamma rays to radio waves. And, so it is with our political spectrum. We operate in a very narrow band of the whole, which happens to lie at the far right end of the total political spectrum (both republicans and democrats).
The establishment is too entrenched to allow any real choices to enter in to the debate. Said debate has been moved so far to the right that there is no true liberalism anymore, at least at the federal level.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 27, 2012 - 12:19pm PT
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So OBVIOUSLY Ron Paul is no real choice.
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Reeotch
Trad climber
4 Corners Area
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May 27, 2012 - 12:31pm PT
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Of course not! Just look at the way he has been marginalized by the media and the RNC. They're terrified of him because he represents real choice. But, I don't delude myself that he has a snowball's chance in Death Valley.
I don't agree with much of his platform. He just serves as an illustrative example of how anything or anyone outside of that narrow political spectrum will be totally marginalized, distorted and shut down.
That's the main reason Paul ran as a republican and not as a liberatarian as he did in 2008. He knows there is no room for third party candidates or ideas in Washington.
And, until there is, there will be no meaningful change.
The only question is to what extent will our current system have to be deconstructed to allow real change and true democracy to exist.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 27, 2012 - 12:57pm PT
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There is no TRUE Democracy. America was never intended to be a true Democracy.
We are a Representational Republic based on democratic principles. That system of governance requires citizens to be informed and involved. Too many people have been deluded to believe their vote doesn't count and thus the system is a failure and should be scrapped. Wake up! Put down the Fox, step away from the Limbaugh, be an American for gawd's sake.
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Reeotch
Trad climber
4 Corners Area
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May 27, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
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Hey! I'm down with that!
"Step away from the TV, put your brains back in your head, and think for yourself for once!"
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Reeotch
Trad climber
4 Corners Area
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May 27, 2012 - 04:43pm PT
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Yeah, maybe they should call it the Palestinian Reservation . . .
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 28, 2012 - 11:51am PT
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Or the Palestinian Bantustan.
Or the World's largest most populated outdoor Prison Camp.
See Fats you are duplicitous as they come. When cornered you say you hope for the Palestinians to have a state of their own, with all the intollerable conditions you would impose of course. Then you make it clear that you never want them to live with peace, justice and liberty.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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May 28, 2012 - 12:00pm PT
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PhilO, where do you see the country of Israel in your scenario? Jews move out into the ocean, Palestinians get the land?
Just asking.....
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 28, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
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Get real Couch. They lived together in peace before they can do it again.
The hackneyed narrative of being "pushed into the sea" has an interesting history as only the Palestinians have been forced into the sea by the Zionists. The Israelis in an effort to defuse the international condemnation of their brutal act started the myth of their risk of being driven into the sea. Learn the real history not the too oft told myths.
The State of Israel has already taken al but about 20% of the land and they keep taking more.
So What would your "solution" be Couchmaster?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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May 28, 2012 - 02:48pm PT
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Seems to me if I can put it in simple terms . . .
Judeo-Christian faith and attitude:
Established upon the covenant between GOD and Abraham, and carried on through his son Isaac.
Believe in GOD and read the Good Book. Abide by GOD's laws of love, peace, and justice.
The 2 Great Commandments:
Love and worship GOD with all your heart, mind and soul. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. Upon these 2 Great commandments hang all the law of GOD and the prophets.
If you don't agree, then peace be to you. We won't hunt you down and kill you for your disbelief. Let us worship GOD as we feel we must, and let us be in peace. We will pray for you. Shalom.
(Yes, many atrocities were done in GOD's name, in Jesus Christ's name, throughout history, but GOD had nothing to do with it. They misappropriated his name and disobeyed his commandments.)
Judaism upon The Messiah coming to Jerusalem in the (near) future:
"Is this your first coming or did you come here to Earth once before?"
Christianity upon The Messiah coming to Jerusalem in the (near) future:
Thank you Lord Jesus Christ for returning as you said you would. You were here once before as the humble servant and high priest of GOD, and as The Lamb of GOD, our savior, dying taking on the sins of the world to save mankind. You have returned a second time as The King of Kings in Great Power and Glory to establish your Millennial reign and to fix the complete mess that mankind has made of your creation. Now we will see what real peace and happiness is truly like and how it can be if we always abide with GOD and do things his way.
GOD's chosen people the Jews, Israel, who carried the water for so long for GOD's deliverance of mankind, and brought to us the Messiah, The Savior of the World, we owe Israel sooooo much. The Jews, the Nation of Israel, will have their spiritual eyes opened and they will see Jesus Christ as The Messiah. It is prophesied to happen in The Good Book. It will happen. And The Jews, Israel, will weep for Their Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, as a Mother weeps for her first born child. These will be tears of Joy.
In the end, Judeo-Christianity is truly one faith. Messianic Jews truly know this.
Islamic Faith and Attitude:
Starting back with Abraham and his son Ishmael . . .
There is no god but God, Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of God.
Follow the 5 Pillars of Islam.
Jesus was a good prophet.
There really are no exceptions to the above. Ultimately the elimination of all other faiths by force, or violence must be achieved. It truly is intolerant of anything else.
It does not accept the Nation of Israel, and works to the ultimate end of the state of Israel.
The faiths of Judaism and Christianity must be eliminated, and those who practice these faiths must be converted to the Islamic faith, or end up martyrs. We are infidels.
Perhaps very simplified but true none-the-less.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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May 28, 2012 - 04:15pm PT
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On the Iranian issue, good assessment here: http://csis.org/files/publication/120518_%20Alterman_GulfKaleidoscope_Web.pdf
Deals with the larger diplomatic issues of engagement, containment, deterrence in a historical context.
As far as you being unable to answer my question regarding Israel and the Jews just upthread Phil, I'll just suggest that you might consider it deeper and more fully, and we can bring it up again later. You currently appear to have no idea or clue of a desirable positive outcome for either or both sides: you only appear to know what YOU "don't like". However, what YOU "don't like" gives you nothing positive to say, which is sad, but which can be overcome with a bit of time and study on your part. I'd suggest that much like the paper I linked, it is a complex issue with no fast or easy answers but you can certainly and easily pick a side. Which it appears that you and I have both done Phil.
Regards:
Bill
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bit'er ol' guy
climber
the past
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May 28, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
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see....the world would be better w/ Mc Cain and Palin!
Why did anyone vote for that damn peace lovin hippie muslim president???
the kid nailed it......enlist now or stop bitchin'
turn off FoX "news"
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