1977 Airplane Crash in Yosemite

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rectorsquid

climber

Lake Tahoe

May 31, 2013 - 07:47pm PT

The government records people are overworked and underpaid and have crappy jobs because people use the FOIA to harasses them constantly. Maybe it's a cover-up but maybe they don't give a crap about this old plane crash thing and just want you to leave them alone.

Going on 8 years. Any real progress on getting a book done?

Dave

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

May 31, 2013 - 09:16pm PT

First,I wouldn't doubt that there has been a cover-up although I fail to see
why there would be one. I rather doubt the plane was shot down and if there
was nefarious mechanical tinkering I doubt it would have made it as far as
it did.

Second, there is one hell of a lot of federal paperwork and crap does get lost.

Third, the NTSB, especially back then, rarely did more than a cursory investigation
of non-commercial accidents. Their thinking probably went along the lines
of "they got what they deserved" so I'm not surprised they wouldn't have sent
somebody in person.

Fourth, they were flying at night by the seat of their pants as low as
possible at a pretty good clip. A very few seconds of tiredness or inattention
and WHAM, you're dead. We're not talking about some dudes in an F-111 here.

Fifth, if there was other than weed on board it sure seems like the reliable
scuttlebutt would have made note of such. Scuttlebutt is rarely wrong, right? ;-)

Licky

Mountain climber

California

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2013 - 12:32am PT

Well Dave, maybe I ought to just stop asking...ya think?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Jun 1, 2013 - 12:58am PT

Licky, I don't wish you any ill will, I just think this is, at best, a tempest in a teapot with a very limited audience. I would be very surprised if anything close to a major publisher took this on. If you read the preface to Flying Through Midnight you will see what a struggle he had to bring it to fruition and that is one hell of a well written and gripping true tale with a much wider audience. Good luck, really!

climber

Boulder, CO

Jun 10, 2013 - 06:14pm PT

chirp....chirp...........chirp......chirp.....

(deafening sound of crickets, in a mild Yosemite spring's eve, waiting, waiting, waiting.......)

Sidmo, run do not walk to the nearest mental health professional, not for anything flamers here have written, but for your own sake - clearly, all they are after is to goad and trick unsuspecting, gullible, impressionable types like you to reveal some quirk, then they pounce without mercy.

Factoid reminders for newbies here: note the number of posts, go research the thread by section, and suspicious variability indicates motivations likely were never honestly revealed, or Lickey truly has a narcissistic master complex that demands absolute attention, whether negative or supportive - as long as you don't ignore him, he's the center of his own universe.
Had he any rudimentary ability as either journalist or writer of any stripe, he could have simply published editions One thru Seven by now, with corrections, updates, addendae, and so on. His excuse, i.e. something like "Oh, don't want to publish anything wrong/inaccurate/incomplete etc" is entirely bogus, and only feeds his delusion that he has a Magnum Opus to spring on the world, any moment now.

The rest of you mostly come across just as raving a**holes, provoking, goading, insulting, casting broad and baseless accusations or insults, (most strangely to me) siding with Lickey, all logic otherwise notwithstanding.
I hope some sociology or psych student is analyzing this rich ground, for the ways in which humans debase themselves on an embarrassing level, for cyber-bullying and idle manipulation of the susceptible.
What ever gave me the illusion, as an eager neophyte, that climbers were somehow nobler, better, characters than the hoi polloi in general?

rectorsquid

climber

Lake Tahoe

Jun 10, 2013 - 06:27pm PT

What ever gave me the illusion, as an eager neophyte, that climbers were somehow nobler, better, characters than the hoi polloi in general?

Yeah, what's with that? Why would a rational person think that climbers would be more honorable than, perhaps, model railroaders or kayakers? Any illusion of this is of your own making because there is certainly no outward signs that this is the case.

Licky may be just a tad bit behind on getting his book done, or he does have an attention to detail that is biting him in the ass, but deep psychological condemnations like calling him narcissistic seem over-the-top. There a big difference in telling him that he's doing a bad job and telling him that he has a personality disorder.

Dave

climber

Boulder, CO

Jun 10, 2013 - 07:11pm PT

rectorsquid

My analysis of Licky is based upon suffering thru years of this crap, with zero hint of an actual resolution or conclusion, as well as having had a parent who had the narcissistic personality disorder, which gives me an insider's view of the affliction and a hypersensitivity/"Narcissist detector" that apparently sets off an internal warning whenever I see too many of the warning symptoms in another's behavior. My diagnosis may be a stretch, but it is distinct from a direct insult or call-out.
If you think my condemnation of him is harsh, well, you obviously have not read or scanned the scores of cruel taunts here directed towards Sidmo primarily but many others earlier. Harshness rules, here, and the poor suckers who get drawn in have been baited, lured, hooked, reeled in so often it appears to be a "catch and release" cesspool of stagnant opinions, paranoia, unsubstantiated rumors and outright conjecture.
The abject pettiness expressed by otherwise respectable figures of Yosemite climbing history continues to support the notion that despite past successes these folks by and large have nothing better to do now than to rant and rag endlessly via hundreds to thousands of empty trivial postings solely to shore up their deep insecurities and fears their lives have been ultimately selfish and inconsequential.
I'll restate the obvious and you can tell me off in another seven years if I'm wrong:
1. I GUARANTEE there will never be a book. Period. Ever.*
2. Because of point 1, everything written by Licky has come to nothing, zero, nada and so all else is proven to be a grand straw man, red herring, MacGuffin, etc.
3. Everyone who has gotten worked up over this historical footnote has been played, whether sincerely supporting Licky, offering opinion or personal histories, or going berserk trying to challenge or refute something.
* 4. If a book does miraculously appear, it will be appallingly short, shallow, bereft of meaningful details hinted at endlessly here, in short, a suspicious disappointment to all who believed.
See ya in 2020

Licky

Mountain climber

California

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2013 - 12:25am PT

AE....do you really speak this way, or only write this way? Sidmo has the same problem. It’s very easy for a few of you to come across as though you've majored in ornamental Victorian Engrish for the sole purpose of drowning the reader in fluff and garbage.

No wait...Junior psychobabble is pretty impressive as well. When you mix it with the Ornamental Victorian Engrish professor you really have expanded your target audience. I'm thinking that I'm missing out.

The end result of your rant is not too far away from sidmo's. Neither work as a stimulator nor as a detractor. I know what I have to do and I have my focus. So I ask you what is the purpose of your post?

Crazy Bat

Sport climber

Birmingham, AL & Sweanee, TN

Jun 11, 2013 - 01:45am PT

I am new to the Taco as it seema to be called. Because of that I can wade through the flames without caring.

I want to thank Licky and everyone who have posted such entertaining stories to this thread.

Licky, I have a coupe of freinds who write historical books about caving. One writes about saltpeter mining. The other writes about more recent stuff. Ive learned from them that you are never done. The best you can do is present the possible theories and the evedence for each. Corrections are for second editions or an authors website. Goggle Larry Matthews and Marion O. Smith.

Start typing. I want to read your book. And remember flames die if you dont feed them or fan them. Ive found the best way to handle flaming trolls is to ignore them and refuse to respond.

Crazy Bat

Licky

Mountain climber

California

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2013 - 02:10am PT

Thanks Crazy...To be honest, I write all the time. I have many chapters, some finished and many get re-tuned as new info comes in. The stories that I now seek are not from the climbers. I am now working on what caused the crash and who might have been involved. There are quite a few loose ends that lead to the Feds. THAT has been my focus for the past two or so years.

I'm not interested in publishing book and then a sequel to the sequel just because I didn't get all of the info or the facts correct the first time through.

I am also now working with a video production company that is using much of my data to produce a documentary about the event. The producer is approaching the event the same way I am. Many of the players in this event have already been interviewed by the producer. You guys know who I mean.

zBrown

Ice climber

Brujo de La Playa

Jun 11, 2013 - 09:24am PT

While we wait with baited breath, Santa Monica killer's arsenal:

Tobia

Social climber

Denial

Jun 11, 2013 - 09:50am PT

Reilly, Flying Through Midnight was an interesting read and a bizarre tale.

climber

Boulder, CO

Jun 11, 2013 - 03:07pm PT

I would not bother a dip back in the cesspool here, except Mr. Schloss asked a specific question.
First, though, notice how he immediately used his standard ploy of attacking me, without addressing my points? Critiquing my writing style in a blogsite is really important; I can hardly wait to return the favor, when your nonexistent book hits the stands.
Second, notice how he fawns over a new arrival - Crazy Bat - who innocently thinks Licky can be trusted, and is what he claims to be. He cannot help himself, but promptly ups the ante, into the Van Allen belts, with the promise of some "documentary". Fortunately, we learn the producer approaches the event the same way Licky has, so we have nothing to worry about.
A few entertained readers like zBrown and Randisi appear to have Licky pegged, and only enter the fray every so often out of boredom.
Last, to answer Mr. Licky, the purpose of my post is as Ali G says, "to keep it real." That is, to warn innocent bystanders and newbies that this entire thread is not what it claims to be, and should be read with a great deal of skepticism and scrutiny.
You squandered your claim of journalistic credibility years ago, and now seem to exist only here, to lure new generations into your yarn-spinning tales signifying nothing.
Put up or shut up.

Mr Roy

climber

Seattle

Jun 11, 2013 - 03:44pm PT

You getting the emails too, AE ? It's his next ploy to try to sucker you in.

atchafalaya

Boulder climber

Jun 11, 2013 - 03:53pm PT

Back in the 80's, I lived on Galveston Island for while. There was a summer where the town was filled with weed from bales that had washed up on the beach. Everyone had it. it tasted like sh#t, but some of it was decently stony. Lots of people selling it on the boardwalk. Some made a lot of money. The story has probably been repeated on every coastline in America. Maybe I should write a book? Problem is that the story is boring. zzzzzzzzz....

sidmo

Sport climber

general delivery

Jun 11, 2013 - 11:42pm PT

Seaweed, huh? we had some in Marin too

I’m in a rush you see . . . don’t care to address anything but the pushback by AE on Licky’s populist rant against the Queen’s English – thanks, whoever you are

to Massah Licky: what language are we to use? I didn’t choose this vocabulary, I learned it in school – blame the Santa Barbara taxpayers - if I was raised elsewhere I’d be dissing you in some other lingo – if you want us to ”dumb-it-down” for you then how far down? Have you lost your dictionary along with your sanity?

PS to AE: you got Licky pegged, but I'm just funnin' here - no need for the shrink, I assure you

PS to Licky: IF you want to degrade your text be warned - kids are way, way harder to write books for than us grownups. They see right through your BS without the filtration of egos and agenda

Licky

Mountain climber

California

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 14, 2013 - 11:57pm PT

Skidmark...Its good to see you succumb to trolling. Your own lame craft appears to be oblivious to you.

Vegasclimber

Trad climber

Las Vegas, NV.

Jun 15, 2013 - 02:03am PT

I don't know why I have to jump back into this cesspool but it's like a train wreck...

As far as the "why" the airplane crashed, I have a feeling you might be digging for gold in a compost heap. I sent you quite a bit of info a couple years ago, as I recall.

I'm not sure how much flight time you have, if any, but I will lay out some facts here.

1. The aircraft was overloaded
2. They were flying low in bad terrain in bad weather
3. They may have had an engine with a bad oil line

Planes with perfectly healthy engines and well within load limits have been swatted to the ground in the Sierra more times then I can count. You can encounter all kinds of wind shear and rotor up there even on clear air days. See what happened to Steve Fossett.

If they did lose a mill in the weather conditions at the time of the accident, they were screwed unless they got damned lucky. The Howard does not like to fly on one turning at the best of times. It was always and still is a very difficult plane to fly, and I seem to recall the pilot didn't have a whole lot of time in it.

It's been confirmed that one of the motors is still in the lake. Go up and take a look. If you get lucky, the prop will still be intact enough to see whether it was feathered or under power when it hit. The wing separated just outboard of the engine, but no way of telling which motor is there until its surveyed. For that matter, have you personally visited the site?

The most likely scenario, with or without an engine out, is that they encountered wind shear, and due to the overload pulled the wing off of it trying to pull out before they hit the ground.