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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Aug 18, 2011 - 11:47pm PT
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Isn't it amazing how the controversy is 30 years old (give or take a bit) but some of the participants have aged nary a day?
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Aug 18, 2011 - 11:51pm PT
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In need of SA?
Ring of fire
Nightmare on California street
Turning point
*(No topo because Grossman thinks the SA team will drill on the free climbing sections)*
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 19, 2011 - 12:01am PT
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One may fairly say that whatever and however hooks were used to catch granite on Wings of Steel in 1982, they've certainly caught other things since then.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Aug 19, 2011 - 12:12am PT
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Turning point
*(No topo because Grossman thinks the SA team will drill on the free climbing sections)*
What of the rumours that that this route has since been rap bolted?
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Prod
Trad climber
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Aug 19, 2011 - 12:18am PT
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SteveW,
That is so yesterday.
Prod.
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Caz
Big Wall climber
Long Beach, CA.
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Aug 19, 2011 - 01:09am PT
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It was a great gift to see this thread is still going. I thought it was done when I went on Vacation...
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Rudder
Trad climber
Long Beach, CA
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Aug 19, 2011 - 01:39am PT
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Isn't it amazing how the controversy is 30 years old (give or take a bit) but some of the participants have aged nary a day?
You mean matured, yeah? ;)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 19, 2011 - 01:56am PT
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...but Ammon and Kait's account will certainly shed some light on the situation.
Which is more than either of you have ever been able to do.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Aug 19, 2011 - 03:56am PT
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Grossman's definitely been a critic, but it goes both ways, no? As we've seen in previous threads, even the slightest critique of the route has been responded to venomously, but it is interesting to see that the latest responses have a sardonic tone.
I think I can see why many people are dissing Grossman's critique of the route, which in response he's gotten increasingly heated (and perhaps a bit irrational at times).
In my opinion, it's because so few have stuck their actual necks out on a ethical aid climbing premise. On various first ascents, Grossman's probably had many terrifying experiences which he easily could have extracted himself with a quick enhancement with a drill or chisel, but he didn't and instead had to plod on in continued terror. Perhaps it's because of the way his neurons got rewired during these experiences, and he's defending his belief in what is right.
Context is important. At the time, 100+ bolts for a route was considered highly excessive, and only Harding (who had special privileges as a Yosemite pioneer) had done routes that required as many drilled holes as WOS. Adding to the lack of purity of the actual placements--whether it be 15 or whether it be more, it doesn't matter--it's sure to get a purist's goat.
Frankly, it's been so many years, and there have been so many other routes in the 90's that required 100+ bolts, the issue seems more moot to me at this point. Of course, on the other hand, I'm interested in what Ammon has to eventually say!
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Aug 19, 2011 - 04:46am PT
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Ammon and Kait,
The thought of a documentary film about wings of steel makes me giddy with glee and delight. Gleelight, if you will. I highly encourage you to see this plan through.
I like the idea of all the major voices - Steve, Richard, Mimi, Mark, and Pete - commenting on the DVD about their observation and interpretation of the facts, and then seeing how these reconcile with your own observations. As Werner wisely stated at the start of this thread, all of it will be held accountable to the standard of truth. Maybe then, some peace can be made.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Aug 19, 2011 - 04:56am PT
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^^^
Pete is in no way "a major voice", but you sir, are a major fluffer, that much is for certain!
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Da_Dweeb
climber
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Aug 19, 2011 - 05:32am PT
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...you sir, are a major fluffer, that much is for certain!
Oh Matt, you -promised- you'd never tell!
*Buries head in hands and runs away sobbing...*
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Aug 19, 2011 - 07:14am PT
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Deuce4
it has been my experience that the most outspoken on ethical matters seem to have pleanty of skelitons in their own closets..
Grosseman and Mimi get no slack because of how perversly crude their method of attack was. How can you possibly claim moral high ground when you defficate on your adversary?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Aug 19, 2011 - 07:54am PT
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Mountain bluebirds do it. I dunno about their morals.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Aug 19, 2011 - 09:40am PT
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The thought of a documentary film about wings of steel makes me giddy with glee and delight. Gleelight, if you will.
Are you a guy or a girl?
Prod.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 19, 2011 - 09:48am PT
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Wow, a documentary of an aid climb on El Cap, should be slightly more exciting than watching a car rust.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 19, 2011 - 11:00am PT
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Da Dweeb is the Fractured Fairy in the Tale...
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Aug 19, 2011 - 11:04am PT
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In these uncertain times of economic chaos, a WOS video will be as fun as a toad in a glass of milk.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Aug 19, 2011 - 11:14am PT
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Yup, only slightly more scintillating than a movie about some guy trudging up a mountainside.
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