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Norton
Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
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It would be fun to have an intelligent Republican here.
that is an oxymoron
no such thing
"intelligent Republicans" do not continue to vote Republican when they witness first
hand the unnecessary destruction of the US economy under President Bush
and they don't continue to vote Republican after witnessing what is widely regarded
as the single worst foreign policy mistake in US history, loss of thousand of US soldiers
and adding trillions of dollars to the national debt by invading and "nation building"
in Iraq
and they don't continue to vote Republican if they give a damn about the women in
their own lives, their wives and daughters, by supporting a party that voted against
equal pay legislation
and yes, by the above definition and criteria, then JohnE is a god damn stupid Republican
edit: and his supposed civility does not change a damn thing
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Yeah, Norton, I'm not so sure John would identify himself as a 'Republican' so much as a 'Conservative'.
Big difference these days.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Norton....Nail on the head..
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Now days
They try to call themselves Libertarians to escape the badge of being a despicable hypocritical Republican
Yet none of them really know what the Libertarian Philosophy is.
If they ever were able to grasp the ramifications of what the libertarian Gov. provides their citizens, they would run for their lives in horror of the true Libertarian Intentions.
But as we all know, they are just the current crop of "Conservatives"
future investigations will refer them to as a "Right Wing Religious Cult"
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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I also doubt JE would consider himself a 'Libertarian'. He doesn't come off with the same kind of Rand/Ron Paul whackery.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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JE called himself "more of a libertarian" in one post I read 2 years ago.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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JE lives in Fresno , the Orange County of central california....Most news in that area , Fox , is right-wing , lunatic fringe...
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Well, I've got some 'Liberal' leanings, but I wouldn't consider myself a full-blown Berkeley Liberal.
I could see JE having some Libertarian leanings...hell, I've got some, too...and I know for a damn fact that several of us on the Left here do, too. That doesn't make any of us full-blown Libertarians, though, does it?
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Maybe we should leave JE out of this discussion and let him reply later
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dude. You got post 2112. Psyched.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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TGT, Google this and report back to us what it means.
Take note of the upside down Stars.
What do the upside down stars represent?
They sure aren't part of the American Flag
in fact, they are the exact opposite
here is something else to ponder
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Note spelling, TGT:
'Google'
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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It's certainly best to let JohnE speak for himself here, and speak for himself he does well. In fact, he is able to articulate himself better than most, and an added bonus is that he respects what others have to say.
That said, I still recall the exchange we had about the "equal pay" bill that was thwarted by the GOP, and John's explanation why he supported the GOP in this instance.
While the bill was more about the ability to discuss pay in the workplace than it was about enforcing equal pay, John's premiss for his support for the GOP seemed to discount the idea that pay was unequal to begin with. Why would a corp pay a man more for a job when they can pay a woman less to do the same job. His argument basically said that if corporations were greedy, they would not pay men more, so the idea that there was unequal pay was a fabrication. (That is my take on John's logic and I admit I could be completely off. But I read his post a couple of times, and that's what I took away.)
Any way you cut it, though, John supported the GOP's vote to kill the bill. And for me, it doesn't matter what circular logic one uses to validate their support for the GOP in this case, the idea that Gov't should allow corp's to penalize people for discussing their salaries is hogwash in my book; I just do not see any solid ground you can stand on when endorsing the GOP in this case. But John certainly tried.
So I guess this is a long-winded to say that I stand by what Norton said above.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Wow. This is just like my wife's family. Stay away, and they talk about you.
I don't think anything I say about me matters much. I'd rather let my arguments speak for themselves, but thank you for so many nice comments.
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Boy, ain't that the truth.
Besides the issue of tone & respectful commentary, there was a question about the various political leanings you (or any of us) have. Though many tend to categorize others pretty simply, my contention is that most of us are a pastiche of ideologic viewpoints. What say you?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Amen, apogee. By the way, I loved your earlier reference to "Berkeley liberals," because I spent four very enjoyable undergraduate years at Berkeley in the late '60's and early '70's. The University in general - and the math and econ departments where I hung out in particular - encouraged wide diversities of opinions. While it wasn't as much fun as hanging out at Indian Rock and the practice rooms in the basement of Morrison Hall, it was a very stimulating place to be.
Few people now realize that the Free Speech Movement had the support of student groups ranging from the W.E.B. DuBois Club to Youth for Goldwater. The politics of the City of Berkeley, however, made someone considered "liberal" anywhere else seem like a hopeless far-right-winger.
John
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Some of the ST polititards are under the impression you have Libertarian leanings. How much influence does Libertarianism have on your viewpoint?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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That's pretty much my impression, too, DMT.
Interestingly, yesterday's posts have varying perspectives on JE's ideologic position.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Well you can guess why most Republicans never answer direct questions
it's because they have too much hypocrisy that will be exposed if they explain their opinions.
And every question we have for them dealing with reality will expose them, so hence, no response.
And you can count on one other thing:
They Will Never admit that they were Wrong.
Do they ever admit to being wrong to themselves?
Or do they delude themselves to stay safe.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Craig, that's just not true in John's case. He's probably not responding (yet) because he doesn't want the personal attention, he's just too busy right now, or he finds the questions kinda silly. Can't blame him for any of these reasons.
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