Yep...ANOTHER mass shooting.

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Crimpergirl

Sport climber

Boulder, Colorado!

Dec 20, 2012 - 02:04pm PT

...All of the school shootings are by white 16-28 year old males who all seem to be victims of some sort of bullying early in life. That's why they come back and act out on schools...

But there are MANY more 16-28 yr old males who get bullied and don't mow down a bunch of innocents. Difficult problem to contend with. :/

Oh, and my understanding is that the panel put together is composed of people who have met many times on this topic. So who knows, something may come of it. Or maybe not. But it is not like a panel of total strangers are meeting on this topic for the first time ever. Time will tell how effective it will be...

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Dec 20, 2012 - 02:06pm PT

Memorial for Emilie Parker tonight at Ben Lomand HS in Ogden, Utah.
There will likely be thousands in attendance.

Both parents were graduates.

Jello, you spend any time there?

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Dec 20, 2012 - 02:08pm PT

The fact that Obama wants reforms NOW as he said in his speech doesnt allude to logic, but rather knee jerks.

Obama has long proven himself not to be a kneejerk reactor, but needs to act while the public will for change is alive.

Look for assault weapons ban, big clip ban, and closing the gun show background check loophhole (maybe people could get pre-approved for buying at gun shows) Plus some mental health access reforms

None of that is so threatening. Who knows if it will do any good though.

peace

Karl

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Dec 20, 2012 - 02:21pm PT

So Ron, from your last post I can see that you wish we all would just drop this thing that you brought up in the first place.

Just a question if you would

You say your friend had a Green Card and his buying and owning a gun was completely legal.

So then why could he not just go and buy a gun himself?

Why would you buy it and then give it to him?

I just don't get why he needed or asked you to do it.

thanks, just curious

crunch

Social climber

Dec 20, 2012 - 02:50pm PT

I got an earful from a friend from here for suggesting this, but;

Google - Operation Open Eyes

McVeigh was a sleeper, he had to be isolated and put down. Jonestown, Waco, Colombine, and others were too. Still going on.

Your welcome Klimmer. Here's some help...
http://www.rumormillnews.com/operation.htm

part 2 gets creepier than the first part.

And then this re: Colombine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOCVZqVG27w

Have a nice day!

This sounds like an authoritative post, with links (first one goes back to a kooky, but authentic-looking "Rumormill" website run by Gunther Russbacher and/or his even flakier wife Rayelan Allen, who have been very, very busy, so that yes, google "operation open eyes" and there is page after page of blather all penned by, or inspired by, the same one or two people). The Columbine video is over an hour long, no way am I plowing through all that.

Anyway, the trouble with posting this stuff is that out here in laptop-land, out of the thousands of people reading and digesting these conspiracy theories are there are people who are really struggling with life, friends, self-esteem, depression, unemployment. maybe one person whose life is at a tipping point.

Given some compassion, encouragement from his friends, relatives, a bit of help or even left alone, he will do okay. But, provoked into thinking that his personal problems stem from some outside, malevolent force, he might be pushed into a much darker place.

If this were Iraq or Afghanistan, he might hear a slightly different version of bluering's story (the central idea, of some evil, omnipotent, and not-very-well described threat to his way of life would be the same) and be pushed, eventually, into becoming a suicide bomber.

Here in the US, he might becomes a gun-murderer-suicide.

Tp push these conspiracy theories, knowing that somewhere out there is a (admittedly very tiny) number of young men who have the capacity to act on them is either to be naive or murderous. Not far, in bad intent, from the infamous example of yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater.

These events provoke argument about gun restrictions which creates more sense of victimhood among certain young, white men (no one on this website, for sure); they lash back, provoking gun-haters to lash back still more loudly. An endless and pointless cycle.

The wisest posts in this thread have come from t*r and lilabiene, who, in different ways understand that a more positive response is to sidestep this argument. And MIchelle.... :-).

Exercise a bit more compassion towards friends and coworkers (yeah, and fellow climbers, too). Step away from the keyboard, go visit a friend.

As Roadie wrote in another thread, "we don't have to like each other, burt we do have to love each other."

TradEddie

Trad climber

Philadelphia, PA

Dec 20, 2012 - 03:25pm PT

OK, cut Ron some slack. (Did I really say that?). Explanation above doesn't contradict his original statement, it's either true, or a good recovery from admitting a felony online.

TE

fear

Ice climber

hartford, ct

Dec 20, 2012 - 04:01pm PT

sole purpose of killing people

Hmmmm... if that were true there would be a few hundred thousand dead people this year. Looking at recent civilian sales over the past 5 years and not seeing any statistical leap in killings... that premise is wrong.

I know that scary looking black-colored rifles with scary big magazines and even scarier looking pointy things on them frighten you.

I get it.

But after using AR-type "Assault rifles" for 2 decades or so.... I haven't killed anyone, nor has anyone I've known in a civilian situation. They are used in a sport every day by thousands of people without any ill intent. Because you are not part of that world, I can assure you that such competitions never turn into bloodbaths.

Stop the hysteria already.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Dec 20, 2012 - 04:10pm PT

Which part of the twenty dead children is hysteria?

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Dec 20, 2012 - 04:12pm PT

I thought it was 23, and 3 adults... plus the victims of the less recent shootings that the number 2 heads have forgotten about.

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Dec 20, 2012 - 04:16pm PT

Speaking of effective, making something merely illegal is not likely to be effective, an effective law should frustrate the act. A cop was killed here in suburban Philly a few months ago by a gun acquired through a straw purchaser.

Probably the guy that Ron bought......

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Dec 20, 2012 - 04:21pm PT

Almost unbelievable. I expected way more from these people. Blood money indeed.

DMT

did SNR screw up? absolutely...

but blood money? really? amazing stretch there.

this is the problem with reasoned debate, it is so easy to throw ones prejudices around that reason goes out the door.

blood money indeed....

edit:

Next time you and your fun loving buddies go to the target range with your AR-15s be sure to wash your hands in blood afterwards.

DMT

so now everyone who shoots targets is guilty of murder. by default you are a murderer since your tax $ killed all those in iraq....you must feel really good about that.

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Dec 20, 2012 - 04:21pm PT

He was headed to SA which at that time was smack in the middle of genocides and killings of educated blacks. He and his family were all targeted due to their educations and used aliases much of the time to survive. I had Saieso on my USFS crew that year, and we became good friends - so i LEGALLY helped my good friend in his quest to bring a better life back to his people and he couldnt do that if he was killed on the way home from the airport. He was never a gun fanatic or anything of the like, yet knew he had better arm himself for the trip back. I spent half the summer teaching him shooting, proper safety and gun handling. He gave me a tribal blessing and honorary title for my efforts which were a very cool thing..

So, Ron, you CONSPIRED to ILLEGALLY export a firearm into South Africa. I don't know, but I'd imagine that both countries have laws and concerns about people transporting weapons across international borders.

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Dec 20, 2012 - 04:25pm PT

sole purpose of killing people

Yes, that is exactly what they were created to do.

Just as you can pound nails with a screwdriver, and I suppose that you can claim that it was designed as a nail pounder.

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Dec 20, 2012 - 04:25pm PT

i am glad to see you realize that your logic is flawed and beyond reason.

fear

Ice climber

hartford, ct

Dec 20, 2012 - 05:02pm PT

Next time you and your fun loving buddies go to the target range with your AR-15s be sure to wash your hands in blood afterwards.

Please seek help....

sandstone conglomerate

climber

sharon conglomerate central

Dec 20, 2012 - 05:18pm PT

I want to tell someone to go f*#k themselves, godf*#kingdamnit...

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Dec 20, 2012 - 05:39pm PT

AR-15, Bushmaster, whatever...

I don't like that type of gun and won't buy one. But considering how much more of a threat a Remington 700 is under most circumstances (i.e. being shot from any distance,) or an S&W 38 is (concealability) I'm not too concerned if my sane neighbor owns one.

The bushmaster rifle was way more gun than the Connecticut shooter needed. He was in the same room as his victims. Assuming he prioritized his targets he could have done the whole thing with a revolver (yeah I know a bunch of folks are going to disagree, but I'm well practiced with a 7 shot 357 and quite certain I am right.)

Where I could agree with the anti AR-15 folks is that this type of gun may have emboldened the shooter (I refuse to write his name.) It looks like the guns we see glorified in violent "entertainment", the guns portrayed in 1st person shooter games and the weapons our military uses. Quite simply, if all he had access to was a revolver he may not have made the choices he did (or he may have, no way we'll ever know.) Perhaps the answer depends upon to what degree this atrocity was play acting, role playing.

Another thing I wonder about, could it be that some of these mass killers are simply suicidal, but do not have the capacity to do the deed until they paint themselves into a corner first?

TomCochrane

Trad climber

Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay

Dec 20, 2012 - 05:41pm PT

get a grip folks

you've all been mostly venting your personal feelings and opinions about a topic that has long been nurtured by the media as one of the key rifts of dissension fracturing our society

i.e. divide and conquer

some here will be quick to tell you that only the controlled media can be trusted

how many of you think you can actually trust what you read in the controlled media?

at best they can't seem to spin a straight story

and there are obvious political agendas being worked hard out of this incident

some here seem to be working hard to control your thinking to align with those political agendas

some alternative media sources researching this incident are saying some rather strange things about it

obviously there are alternative views about whether the controlled media is reporting what really happened

so who do you trust to tell you the truth?

have any of you taken the trouble to set aside your differences and look into the facts on the ground and research what really happened at that school?

have you even considered the degree to which you are perhaps being manipulated for political agendas?

the discussion on this incident is really generating more heat than light...

unlike Anastasia's 'Boobs' thread, which is doing fine on both counts

bvb

Social climber

flagstaff arizona

Dec 20, 2012 - 05:43pm PT

WTF Ksolem. 20 kids, 3 - 11 bullets per kid. Do the math. Are you really, with a perfectly straight face, going to tell us you could have done that [sic] with a revolver?