Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Feb 17, 2012 - 02:23pm PT

Just a friggin' rock is one way to look at it I suppose. But "just don't climb it" in this case is pretty much just a scale up of the "just don't clip them". I don't need to have climbed it to know what it's about given the photos and eyewitness documentation of those who have.

And it's an issue that affects all climbers, not just the few of you who've been on it. Also, I may be older, but CT has always been in my sights (along with Asgard) and I may yet sneak a trip in before I'm all done.

[ P.S. My only interest in the lies of an old man are as part of a vendetta to rationalize the compressor and it's continued existence

climber

Boulder, CO

Feb 17, 2012 - 03:20pm PT

Despite Enzolino's inferences, I remember near-universal condemnation of Maestri's actions at the time, and his subsequent interview revealed his utter lack of concern or respect for other climber's traditions or opinions. He actually was proud of his own anarchy, and spewed insults at his inferiors - essentially every other climber - and claimed the "right" to do WTF he wanted anywhere, anyhow, anytime.
Worse, as time has revealed almost certain fraud with regard to the claimed 1959 ascent, the offense perpetrated by the Compressor Route may best be regarded as a study in abnormal, antisocial behavior and psychiatric personality disorders, rather than debated in the arena of mountaineering achievements or ethics.
Trying to compare the man to Warren Harding is a grave insult to Warren. By contrast, Harding was an iconoclast, a shrewd, ironic social critic whose targets as often included other climbers - but he loved, rather than despised them. He never took himself or his climbs seriously, whereas Maestri seems to devoid of any sense of humor.

All of this notwithstanding, the second act in this Comedy of Errors surely must be the different, but equally arrogant act of chopping the route.
I agree that the time window closed on that act, about 35 years and a few score ascents ago. I am disgusted by everything the route stood for, and yet do see it as a historic route, albeit in all the worst ways. Along with the chiseled "free" routes that can be examined and used as learning tools, this should have been left as mute testament to the greatest follys of arrogant men.
Since Lama's free ascent represents a "superior" method of ascent, it is illuminating that he disagreed with the chopping. Kudos to him.

Snorky

Trad climber

Carbondale, CO

Feb 17, 2012 - 03:39pm PT

This is directed at Coz

A lot of people seem to care whether Maestri lied. Something about it really strikes a chord in many climbers, one way or the other. That itself is interesting.

It is just rock, correct. But then again, it's not just any rock is it? It's obviously special.

I guess it comes down to whether one favors human history or natural history. Where does your affinity lie? I personally am amazed at how many climbers are against making Cerro Torre just a little wilder, in favor of some recent human architecture, even when stained in controversy and universally acknowledged to be in poor taste, even when it brings out the worst in everybody. Their statement is that an established route, even one done in the singular worst style ever, has more value than the wild condition of an extremely precious and beautiful climbing resource. Why climb natural rock at all then, why not just manufacture perfect artificial routes? I find it odd to declare bolts more sacred than earth, but I'm just a wispy wood elf, not a hardass ironman, so I can't relate to the pleasure of a full-on alpine ego-trip. I'd rather collect dew out of flowers personally.

Regarding having not climbed in Patagonia: Why exactly is that a prerequisite for having an opinion about the appropriateness of the bolt ladders? Is the rock made out of a unique substance down there, does gravity work in reverse in that hemisphere, is compressor-bolting an established norm, is it the only mountain range with bad weather? Why does one have to have climbed in Patagonia to have formulated an environmental ethic that relates to alpine climbing? What about this issue is specific to Patagonia, other than its coordinates? Obviously, having not been there, I fail to see how this would be any different if it happened on Trango Tower or in the Bugaboos. The scale of context of the incident includes the entire alpine environment, not just the nation of Argentina, which is merely a temporary overlay on the world's relief map.

Obviously, this incident highlights a number of important climbing issues that go way beyond Patagonia. It touches the heart of why and how we climb. The chopping of the Compressor Route will become a reference point for future alpine climbing ethics, access, history, stewardship, diplomacy, etc. And many prominent Patagonian vets have spoken out in favor of the chopping and convinced me with articulate arguments that the persistence of those bolts was a blight on the rock, if not climbing itself.

Cerro Torre is a UNESCO Natural Heritage Site, as well as an icon of alpinism, so what happens there may affect other great natural sites around the world. These should be managed for natural value, not cultural (especially examples of bad culture). Like it or not, whether I ever make it to Patagonia, I have an interest in such things, as should anybody that cares about natural wild places. If you don't want to hear it, don't participate in free-for-all forums. Create an echo-chamber blog and just post back and forth between yourself and your buddies. Otherwise, please tolerate us lesser folks and many thanks for letting us bask in the presence of great ones.

livellozero

climber

Feb 17, 2012 - 03:40pm PT

has this already been posted?

enzolino

climber

Galgenen, Switzerland

Feb 17, 2012 - 03:48pm PT

AE,
perhaps you necessarily remember the english speaking climbers' opinion + someone else, because they fit with youf belief. I remember that for many people he was a hero. And he remained a hero for the next generations.

I also wonder how you can infer your conclusions about Maestri's sense of humor.
Have you read his books?
Have you read his interviews in italian?
Do you speak italian?
If the answer is no, you know how much credibility your words may have.

His anarchy was exactly a reaction against alpinistic bigotry. The alpinism of people which take rules too seriously.
And this is one reason that makes the Compressor route so unique beside the historical character.
In other words the reality is exactly the opposite of what you said.

At this point, before carrying on with your "funny" comments about Maestri, I suggest you to take an italian course. I'm talking as a friend eh ... to avoid you further embarassments ... :-)

enzolino

climber

Galgenen, Switzerland

Feb 17, 2012 - 03:57pm PT

@livellozero,
great pic!!! ;-)

@Snorky,
I think you are getting this wrong.

I guess it comes down to whether one favors human history or natural history. Where does your affinity lie? I personally am amazed at how many climbers are against making Cerro Torre just a little wilder

Many climbers are not against making Cerro Torre just a little wilder. They are against erasing a route for the wrong reasons: disrespect for an historical climber and for an historical route. And by disrespect I don't mean necessarily the chopping itself.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Feb 17, 2012 - 04:03pm PT

His anarchy was exactly a reaction against alpinistic bigotry. The alpinism of people which take rules too seriously.
And this is one reason that makes the Compressor route so unique beside the historical character.

It has no 'historical character' and 'his anarchy' is beyond a piss-poor excuse for a winched-compressor ascent of CT.

Kinobi

climber

Feb 17, 2012 - 04:05pm PT

With reference to:
"But this thread has gone from talking about an establish climb being erased to and all out attack on an 80 year old man."

This actually says it all.
It really says it all.

Anyway, some climbers are organizing an event in Italy to show support to Cesare Maestri, as a human being. Everybody is invited.
Best,
E

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Feb 17, 2012 - 04:22pm PT

I don't claim to be an 'expert' by any means, but have read all the available eyewitness documentation of the those who have examined the '59 and '70 routes firsthand and seen the various photos of the ladders and anchors which, by themselves, don't really need any further elaboration or corroboration.

rampik

Social climber

the alps

Feb 17, 2012 - 04:35pm PT

95 to 2000

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Feb 17, 2012 - 04:40pm PT

Soooooo,.... the Compressor Route should have remained inviolate because it was a symbol of anarchy?

Isn't the chopping just as much a symbol of anarchy?

We are taking a ride on the mobius strip here.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Feb 17, 2012 - 04:40pm PT

Does anyone else see parallels between Maestri's claims and actions, and those of Robert Peary?

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Feb 17, 2012 - 04:41pm PT

David Roberts in Great Exploration Hoaxes.

Snorky

Trad climber

Carbondale, CO

Feb 17, 2012 - 05:00pm PT

They are against erasing a route for the wrong reasons: disrespect for an historical climber and for an historical route. And by disrespect I don't mean necessarily the chopping itself.

Enzolino,

What was respectable about the route, other than its old age? Name something respectable about it.

Besides, the route is still right there. Only some superfluous protection was removed. It was free climbed without the bolts just days later! Nobody can take Maestri's name away from the route's history. Are you afraid people will forget the story? What do the bolts represent to you?

To me, it's like you're saying this: It's true, unnecessary bolt ladders are objectively bad and have no place in the alpine arena, except for the worst bolt ladder in the most beautiful area, which should never be removed, because it represents one man's personal struggle to cope with the trauma of having been justifiably doubted after the discovery of his half-truth. The bolts should remain, not even for climbing necessarily, but just as a monument to this tortured man, even though he himself wanted to remove them (and did so at the top).

So, if I follow, it is out of respect for Maestri that we must preserve the bolts that he wanted to remove. Huh?

crunch

Social climber

Feb 17, 2012 - 05:24pm PT

Hey, enzolino, your two posts would appear to contradict each other:

His anarchy was exactly a reaction against alpinistic bigotry. The alpinism of people which take rules too seriously.

ten minutes later:

Many climbers are ... against erasing a route for the wrong reasons: disrespect for an historical climber and for an historical route. And by disrespect I don't mean necessarily the chopping itself.

Kruk and Kennedy performed an act just as anarchic. Equally, I think, a reaction against alpinistic "rules".

Each new generation has to wrestle with the "rules" that the older generation deem inviolable.

Christian Griffith, in 1986 (or was it last week?):

“Like a bull crashing from the hands of its tormentors through the hands of the arena, a new generation shakes its horns and parts the crowd. They are free. They are the new power that will decide what direction climbing should go....What is possible? What can be braved? How can new heights be reached and old barriers be dissolved?"

A bit melodramatic, maybe, but his next bit gets to the heart of the matter:

"Respect for the past should be measured by respect for the future.”

deuce4

climber

Hobart, Australia

Feb 17, 2012 - 05:40pm PT

Crunch, interesting that CG's comments were part of a vanguard that involved an exponential increase in the number of bolts in our crags, but which indeed, also saw a significant rise in technical standards.

Largo

Sport climber

The Big Wide Open Face

Feb 17, 2012 - 09:11pm PT

It was my understanding that CM never got to the top of the compressor route because Bridwell told me that he headn't, that all evidence of his efforts stopped someways below. No doubt he could have drilled his way to the top of the rock, but he stopped short.

Now I'm willing to accept that maybe this is wrong, that maybe he got to the top of the rock.

But who believes that he summitted with Egger in 1959. Did he not claim to do so? Who says he did, and what is the evidence.

This was roughly the time of El Caps first ascent. What if Harding claimed to have climbed the Nose, but actually only got to Camp 4. How would history treat such a person and such a claim?

JL

Snorky

Trad climber

Carbondale, CO

Feb 17, 2012 - 09:50pm PT

Deuce, Largo

Since you're both here - Didn't you two write the How to Climb Big Walls book? That was my manual. Thanks for writing it. I didn't die yet, although I haven't tried very hard!

And just a break in the action to look at Cerro Torre again for a sec. Enjoy this unusual view:

This is pretty nice too: