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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Oct 19, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
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And FF, if you survive the initial ridicule to provide any thought provoking insights counter to the CAGW narrative , you just might find a bloviating fruitloop of a fly like old Frosty the Snowman (aka Bruce K) endlessly buzzing about.
The poor fool blames the system for not recognizing his genius and bestowing upon him titles , work, or pay more respectable than seasonal nail bender and winter snow shoveler in Chief at his local ski area. Not prepared for the future, and recieving little respect ,he lashes out at all he believes to be benefitting from the system he blames for his position in life.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 19, 2014 - 05:54pm PT
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There are two graphs you need to see..
1. The graph showing CO2 levels over the millennia relative to temps..and
2. The graph showing sun activity relative to temps...
who made the CO2 levels plot for the millennia?
who made the sun activity plots for the millennia?
what are they based on? what is there resolution in time?
why is the millennial behavior of the CO2 or the Sun relevant?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 19, 2014 - 08:11pm PT
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Chiloe posts to climbing threads (because he's actually done a ton of climbing over his very long career at it)
Chiloe has published numerous papers on climate based on his skill of analyzing data
He's even published sociological papers about public perception of "the debate"
We have no idea what FreedomFirst does... but even rick points out that he is pretty much just parroting the most virulent screed out there concerning climate science.
And we have no idea of who FreedomFirst is or does, the only climbing relation is that he's looking for a partner to climb at the Riverside Quarries... and ECIYA is looking for a partner too... that ought to be a fun connection.
Another anonymous troll whose too cowardly to reveal their identity. And not only that, but posts thoroughly discredited information from some uncited source.
At least that other anonymous troll sci-fi cited sources which didn't help his case at all (having not read the sources, apparently). At least I got The Chief and rick off the habit of citing sources they hadn't read (but were informed about someplace they didn't want to reveal).
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Oct 19, 2014 - 09:08pm PT
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Thoroughly discredited sources Eddy? I think not . And the idea you trained us to your game rules is simply delirium on your part. Now lets get real amigo
Things aren't going well for your criminal enterprise friends and you know it.
The paleo climate smoothings are being convincingly reconstructed to their true range and extent .
The climate sensitivity to CO2 is steadily trending downwards below AR5 . And even below the arbitrary 2.0c danger level.
The hiatus in warming is creating a bigger gulf between GCM projections and instrumentally measured reality with each passing month and year.
Global sea ice extent and mass is higher than when this whole charade started in spite of hysterical pronouncements of doom.
The sea levels rise is not accelerating and in fact have decelerated in the last ten years per some satellite measurements.
The intensity and frequency of extreme weather has decreased from higher 20th century levels
One after another country is pulling out of carbon reduction promises, including China Russia Australia India Canada Poland and on and on. Many others, including most of the EU, have been bled dry by enviro cronyism and their populations are one severe winter away from widespread revolt.
Unless you Eddy, and all your freinds, vote early and often plus bus, bike, push, pull and drag all the undocumented democrats you can get your hands on to the polls, the pendulum of power might well swing to those not so freindly to the CAGW crime cabal
In short, you guys are probably dead men walking; zombies if you will. Dont cry in your koolaid though, ill buy you a beer when its all.over.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Oct 19, 2014 - 09:55pm PT
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I'm glad you bring up orbital mechanics Malnuts
In the post mortem of CAGW it will be found that "global warming" was largely concentrated in the NH.
Among other near equal contributors to 20th century temp rise out of the LIA (.a solar grand maximum, positive phases of great oceanic cycles in phase) is the fact that most of the "global warming" occurred in the NH. Because of the phase of orbital eccentricity and the current point of precession, which is responsible for the slow 26, 000 year change in the calendar months of the NH and SH seasons, the northern hemisphere is closest to the sun in january recieving not only 7% more solar radiation than SH winter but by virtue of the length of the ellipse the NH winter is several days shorter than its SH counterpart. Small wonder what is a major contributor to Arctic ice loss at the expense of antarctic gain.
EDIT: kick me out of your class if you will, but I will still refuse to.play by your rule book. What I post is usually memorized material and I aint going to shuffle through all those papers just to please you.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 19, 2014 - 11:05pm PT
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What I post is usually memorized material and I aint going to shuffle through all those papers just to please you.
you don't have anything. you're making it up
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Oct 19, 2014 - 11:43pm PT
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Eddy , just because you have a multi hundred billion dollar self perpetuating study industry to pick largely useless papers from and apparently think you can make an illusory elephant wag his trunk with five equations, does not make what scientism you represent settled science. Far from it. You have proven nothing but the widespread existence of a sick ideology of doom. The science you post nowadays is made up camouflage for AGW failure, backtracked revisionism. And you have the gall to call my recounting of fact as made up. God the audacity of you guys is breath taking.
Frosty, yes Jefferson had some pretty liberal ideas and practices, but he was a patriot and if you had been present spouting your usual bs he would have had your traitorous ass hung for sedition.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 20, 2014 - 12:43am PT
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you got nothing, rick, you're making it up
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 20, 2014 - 07:52am PT
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What I post is usually memorized material and I aint going to shuffle through all those papers just to please you.
Just goes to prove your total lack of knowing jackshet about the bullshet you keep posting ....?
You and .... do have so much in common. The common thread you both share, You are both so fking ignorant of the historical facts of reality. Yet you continue to believe in the ideology of stooooooooooopid.
But then that is what happens when you choose delusional standards of thinking.
Okay that proves it to my satisfaction. Lighten up and get some education Scientismists!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 20, 2014 - 07:57am PT
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If the IPCC computer models' projections DO NOT MATCH the temp empirical evidence ...the IPCC models are WRONG...RIGHT?
what do you mean by "match"?
that's a quantitative question.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 20, 2014 - 08:01am PT
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Come on guys...no warming for 15 years despite CO2 increases
you mean that the measurement of the atmospheric surface global mean temperature has been relatively flat for the decade...
the component of the global mean temperature that depends on the CO2 component has been increasing, there are natural forcing components that have combined to keep the temps flat,
but the warming has continued to increase
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Oct 20, 2014 - 08:09am PT
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Not sure if this is old hat here, I've fallen behind on reading the past few weeks. But Science 9/26 has a dramatic cover image showing the loss of *ground* water in California, as calculated from GRACE satellite data -- the same technology used to estimate mass balance of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets, and also (different spacecraft, same idea) the new gravitational maps of the Moon.
COVER Satellite image from NASA's Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment (GRACE) mission showing California's devastating loss of fresh water (in red) since 2002. In each of the past 3 years, epic drought has drained the region of more than 15 cubic kilometers of fresh water. Borsa et al. report the crustal response to much of this water loss. See page 1587 and the related Editorial on page 1543.
The drought you can't see
Marcia McNutt
The Western Hemisphere is experiencing a drought of crisis proportions. In Central America, crops are failing, millions are in danger of starvation, and if the drought doesn't break soon, even vessels transiting the Panama Canal will need to lighten their loads, which will increase prices for goods transported globally. In the western United States, the drought-stricken region spans a vast area responsible for much of the nation's fruits, vegetables, and beef. As the drought's grip has tightened, water users have turned to tapping groundwater aquifers to make up the deficit for people, crops, livestock, and industry. But even when the rain does return, regreening the landscape and filling again the streams, lakes, and reservoirs, those aquifers will remain severely depleted. It is this underground drought we can't see that is enduring, worrisome, and in need of attention.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 08:30am PT
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The Chief, it's clear that you either didn't read, or didn't understand, Chiloe's last post.
You parade your ignorance as if it were something to be proud of.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 08:33am PT
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Since surface temperature seems to have fallen out of favor and "heat content" is the new metric, ...
No Sketch, you're not paying attention. For example, can you name when the 10 hottest years on record occurred? (BTW, that is temperature we're talking about).
Where does 2014 fall into the mix (too early to call as a total, but the evidence is very strong).
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 20, 2014 - 08:56am PT
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it is a eye catching cover....
there are posts in another thread, it caught my eye for the climber connection... the rebound response of the plate due to pumping out the water lifted the Sierra a half inch or so...
This was detected by the GPS network and consistent with the satellite measurements.
I also did a quick calculation of the energy required to pump the water out of the ground and then looked for a correlation between drought periods and California energy use... there might actually be something there (though I'd have to get higher time resolution information). A quick calculation shows it's about 20% of the state total in drought years.
This on the "how bad is the drought" thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2328516&msg=2472285#msg2472285
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2328516&msg=2473271#msg2473271
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Oct 20, 2014 - 09:06am PT
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NOAA just updated their surface temperature index through September. In agreement with the NASA data released earlier, NOAA shows 2014 as the warmest September on record.
But the graph above shows Septembers only. Here are 135 years of January-September averages.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Oct 20, 2014 - 09:12am PT
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Please refrain from posting the NOAA fudge factory temp history as fact. It is well known that they are the outlier on the high side.
You guys just don't get it, all the cries of doom and supporting scientism is viewed as science fiction, poor material at that.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 20, 2014 - 09:17am PT
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not sure what you are getting at The Chief...
the aquifer water is a resource, and its renewability takes place over hundreds and thousands of years. The rate at which we're pumping it will draw that resource down to the point that it will not be available to use.
The value of the resource is very high, yet the cost of using the resource, a common resource, is very low, so low as to merit not even a measurement of how much water was being drawn. So low that a more conservation minded use of the resource isn't economic.
What crops are planted in California that are essential to feeding the world? what crops are not so essential, and how do they use water?
This is not just a problem in California, western droughts (which are a naturally recurring phenomena) are driving the pump out of the Ogallala Aquifer, an ancient reserve of water left over from the last ice age.
Human use of these commons, and I'll include the atmosphere here along with the oceans and the water reserves on land, affect everyone, affect the entire planet. And while many changes to the planet occur without human cause, there are increasingly many human induced changes.
The point being we should be thinking about what changes humans are making, why, and pursue a course of making better choices.
At some point, you will be paying for the water you pump out of the ground, that water is a common resource, and your use of it should be repaid.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Oct 20, 2014 - 09:24am PT
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It is well known that they are the outlier on the high side.
No, they are not an outlier, high or otherwise. Are you just making that up, or did someone tell you it was true? By what definition of outlier, and with what evidence?
all the cries of doom
Did I cry doom?
and supporting scientism is viewed as science fiction, poor material at that.
No, what I cite is actual science, which you counter with rants and your deep faith in fantasy.
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