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sidmo
Sport climber
general delivery
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just kidding - trying to motivate licky to finish - nothing else seems to work
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sidmo
Sport climber
general delivery
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tim - youre right - but licky will never care about the peripheral stories, that to us are the story - i just want to read what he thinks is relevant - i'll speedread the chapters on plane mechanics and flight characteristics and get right to the meat, which will be the gist of the story - but his arrogance will hinder him and we know that - oh well - what brand of razor blades was that again?
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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there are many untold stories related to the plane that will never make it into any book.
This kind of begs two questions.
How many?
Why not?
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sidmo
Sport climber
general delivery
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ZZbottom
You pose great questions. But I assumed their answers were obvious to anyone paying attention to this thread.
There are as many stories as there were people living in the park at that time . . . more, really, because some people have multiple tales to tell. Sorry you weren’t there – if you and the other skeptics (haters) had been you wouldn’t be so dismissive of other posters. In fact, your skepticism is indicative of your ignorance – if you had been there you’d realize that no one has a monopoly on the facts and no one’s story necessarily contradicts another’s story. You have the right to selectively and subjectively edit information for your own consumption, but you run the risk of both appearing and being misinformed if you choose to do so. So, there must be hundreds, if not thousands of stories out there, and Licky cannot be faulted for including and excluding them based on what he thinks his book should feature.
But that exclusion is tricky, and serves to answer the second question: the sheer volume of stories would produce a manuscript so unwieldy that it could hardly be edited properly, much less published. If every story made its way into his book the project would be akin to a set of encyclopedias. But Licky’s shortcomings, as it seems to me, is that he is content to exclude stories about the sociological impact of the unprecedented gold rush in favor of minutiae about technical aspects of the plane and the crash. Its not that he should omit details about what plane they were flying, etcetera, but that he should tell the tale comprehensibly and use his best judgment and take the advice of others in order to provide a representative sample of the experiences of everyone involved. My well-documented beef with Licky and others has to do with his and their arrogance at my early suggestions to that effect – I was attacked as being not only irrelevant but unconnected to the story itself. That these insults came from individuals who certainly were not there added insult to injury. Licky’s book, if and when he ever does publish (and I will be amazed if we ever get the opportunity to peruse its pages) will still be an interesting read, if only to ascertain what will be missing from the compendium. He has alienated at minimum this source, as I will never trust him with my accounts except in the most generalized form, and who knows how many others whose authors will be disinclined to communicate with someone as arrogant and unprofessional as to take personal offense at storytellers that he could just easily and quietly ignore. So many of his vitriolic posts should never have been articulated – their inclusion speaks to his naiveté. In short, Licky disrespects both the experience of some of the participants and observers and the academic process itself. History and Journalism are proud traditions that he seems to have too little respect for to call himself a practitioner of either or both. And whether he wants to admit it or not, those are the disciplines to which he should be committed in order to produce a volume worthy of the magnitude of the plane’s story. I call him a poser because he clearly has not studied the craft of writing and inexplicably changed his description of himself from “social” to “mountain” climber. He’s a stair climber at best, but as a paratrooper believes himself worthy of any title he chooses. If he likes jumping so much, to paraphrase a popular t-shirt back in the day he should “go jump in a lake.” If he likes climbing so much he should take the advice of a more popular shirt of the same era and “go climb a rock.” But he wants to “go write a book.” For that he should seek professional help, perhaps in more ways than one.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Interesting that you know so much about the book, sid-monotonous. Have you read the draft?
There are indeed hundreds, thousands, millions of untold stories, most notably yours (due to lack of interest, I presume).
It's a book that revolves around drug dealers, a topic of marginal interest to most. My interest is because I knew or was acquainted with many of the big traders of the day. Some were very clever. I would bet that some of their undiscovered techniques are in use today.
I certainly don't hate anybody that posts on this thread and of course
Think about it.
Wish I could linger and chat, but the UV index is climbing. Gotta go.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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^now you're a fortune teller
I'm going down the road feeling bad now that I'm not up to your [puny] standard.
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2013 - 05:32am PT
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sidmo...since you've deactived your email, my offer for a cup of coffee to discus your airplane history still stands. You up to the offer? I'm good with it....you? Just name the place, the time, and I'll be there. Its pretty simple.
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Nitrox
climber
Norcal
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May 17, 2013 - 01:02am PT
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Wow, deep subject?
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2013 - 01:03am PT
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Come on sidmo. This is what you've wanted all along. Just let me know where and when. You can even use my email and no one will know except you and me.
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Mr Roy
climber
Seattle
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May 17, 2013 - 03:09am PT
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Sidmo, don't do it !!
I got new info..
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Mr Roy
climber
Seattle
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May 18, 2013 - 11:38am PT
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Greetings from a Fellow SuperTopo Member!
This message has been sent from a fellow registered SuperTopo climbing member to you.
The message is:
I thought we had a deal, you'd leave me alone and vis versa
Sent by: Licky
You know your insane..
3 ego ridden emails all because I posted the same photo you have up on twitter..
You notice no one cares about you or me any more except sidmo and i think he might have a dysfunctional crush on you..
The message is:
By now we have both posted enough on the internet that with a little internet savey we can figure out who is who. Me? I've posted my name, my phone number, and my city on this forum. If you want to play this game of outing, I'll be happy to take up the challenge. You good for it?
Sent by: Licky
The message is:
You sure you want to do this?
**
You sure are a fun guy Rick. Happy Anniversary, bra.**
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 21, 2005 - 07:35pm PT
In 1977 a plane loaded with dope crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake. I knew the pilot and his wife since high school. His wife and I are working on co-authoring a book about the incident. I am looking for anyone that can recall any stories about what went on in the area during the first few weeks following the crash. We are not looking to expose anyone, we are looking for stories to add to what we already knew happened up to that night.I have talked to a few ex park employees that were there at the time and have gotten their take on things. Anyone else?
***
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Psilocyborg
climber
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May 18, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
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Sidmo is doing so much to call attention to the book, I assume he is on Licky's payroll. Or an alter ego? ;-)
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Mr Roy
climber
Seattle
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May 27, 2013 - 03:06am PT
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Licky
9:05 PM (2 hours ago)
to me
Greetings from a Fellow SuperTopo Member!
This message has been sent from a fellow registered SuperTopo climbing member to you.
The message is:
So Mr. Roy...you good for a cup of joe? Want to talk about old times? Pick your time and place. I'll meet you there. You must have a lot of stories about this incident. I'd love to hear them.
Sent by: Licky
So is this a bot or have the PTB put a new employe in as the Licky avatar?
The real Rick S. would know better.. maybe..
edit:
It reminds me of getting a letter from the debt collection..
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
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Thinking of you Roy
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away
Its funny Roy. I have outted myself. I have posted my name, the city I live in, and my phone number. For some reason you want to play the master detective and post photos of me and the history of my school life as if this will make me shrink into the shadows. The one thing you've not unearthed is me.
And to think that I am very familiar with Marginal Way. Who would have thought?
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Mr Roy
climber
Seattle
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May 30, 2013 - 02:45am PT
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Good, come by and say hi. I'm well known in the community..
BTW there is no reason to be afraid of each other.. I really know nothin' . Those times were like 5 lifetimes ago. But if you want to come by and ask MW is there 24/7. Right down the hill from Highpoint.
But I would rather talk about my trip to India..
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slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
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May 30, 2013 - 03:34am PT
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Hey Licky! Just wondering where you're at with the book. I know that this thread gets cumbersome at times but some people really do just want to know.
How far out before publication? Still doing research? Writing text?
Please PM me if you want to keep it out of circulation.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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May 30, 2013 - 09:16am PT
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think i brought this up previously, let me think about it for a second or two ... oh yeah, purdy shur i did. uh huh. and nobody responded, so i'll try again. anybody remember the well known climber/park employee (or maybe it was his wife/gf/significant other (ferget) that was such (park employee) and he was reaping the benefits, wudeVah. i have conveniently fergot his name (LOL) so no worries, eh? anyway, and as the story goes/went, there was a lot of coke on the plain. dunno, never made it up there like i have said, i was a day late (1 f'n day) and at leat a dollar short. but, evidently, he was right on time (and not short of any bucks i might add) b'cuz he managed (or perhaps he simply finagled) to take a chopper up there early on, load it up to the hilt with not only weed, but a lot of coke, and then fly the bird back over to the freznoid vicinity. hey, i heard it from more than one peeps that were closely associated with his crew. i been through this thread at least once, beginning to end, and i ain't heard nothing about that. and, i know there was coke on the plane. plus, i have already recounted how one of my dearest of friends, who heard it directly from the horses mouth, told me that the fbi/dea/etc. were claiming that there wasn't only coke, but heroin on board the plane. and i know there was plenty of snow in the valley that summer. cudda came from sf, and much of it most likely did. anyway, probably shudda just avoided even clicking on this thread, have been cuz it seems to run its course already, and i've got more important things to do this morning, so...continue on!
edit: plus, as far as i'm concerned, don't really give a sh#t about it nor any book. it's all history, AFAIC! but i do care about what happened to one of my good friends, and still suspect he cud'da been murdered. ya all know who i'm talkin' about. so i just wanted to add, 'their ain't no rest for the wicked' and there ain't never gonna be...cuz eternity is a very long time. so best come clean while there's still time to do so...just sayin'!!
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Licky
Mountain climber
California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2013 - 07:10pm PT
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Two major issues are, 1) why did they crash in the first place and 2) was it caused by someone or group that wanted them to crash?
I want evidence to either dispel or support the argument. Not the stuff that Hollywood puts into their movies or that some of the published books contain.
To get this information from the Feds has been tedious. I submit a FOIA request and get a wealth of info. Then during the reading of the documents I come across a report that talks about photos taken and yet my FOIA request asked specifically for photos. A second request nets photos. In another request I am provided only the final reports yet they had to be based on field reports that are not within the same files. This isn't just with the USP, but with every Fed agency I have contacted.
For example, I asked the FAA for the history of ownership. I received a very nice one inch thick envelope dating the plane back through each company that owned it. I submitted the same request one year later and was told there was no documentation for that tail number on record.
The NTSB submited a final report on the cause of the crash but I know that there were no NTSB employees at the lake when the plane and its parts were hauled out, cut up and air lifted to a flatbed then trucked to a scrap yard. FOIA requests to NTSB netted a response of "we have no documents or files for that crash or tail number". Then magically documents start showing up.
I know this sounds like whining, but its things like this that make it slow going, and I'm not doing this full time or with a crew of researchers.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
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May 31, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
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Two major issues are
Two remaining issues? I wanna know how many successful flights they made (roughly) and why they didn't use a Porsche or Pineapple Juice cans.
Hi Ric(k)!
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