Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
crunch
Social climber
CO
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 10:44am PT
|
Yeah, without the deep education, knowledge and understanding of math and science, reality is just what exists in the 3D real world. Thus, non-existent. And those that live on that basis are simple freaks of dumbazz nature. One must know and understand the science and math in order to know the true reality of what COULD exist. Not what really does, right here, right now.
Hey, The Chief, without the understanding of math and science you can't judge or have any say in the state of climate change science.
But you have every right to be involved in the public policy debate over what and when (and if) anything should be done about global climate change. You are right to be angry, because there's a lot at stake and you are powerless to have any say, to do anything beyond post stuff here on Supertopo. It's about all any of us can do, whatever we think. But your anger is directed at the wrong people. Why are you angry at scientists like Ed Hartouni and Chiloe? They are doing what they do, science.
Your real fear is the potential loss of "freedom" or rise in taxes that might affect you. What freedom is that? The only freedom I can see being affected is the freedom for the coal/fossil fuel industry to pollute our planet and, now, apparently, cause huge damage to our climate while not paying a dime toward the vast cost of repairing it all.
An old story. Colorado's mountains are covered in toxic waste piles and poisonous ponds that the polluters/miners lied about, promised to clean up, and eventually walked away from.
These days the banks and miners and corporations hire highly paid and highly skilled publicists tell you that it's your own "freedom" and "rights" that will be affected. It's not. It's their wealth and privilege.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 11:14am PT
|
Would you explain (in layman terms), how pre-Argo deep ocean heat content was calculated? The chart shows about 50 years of pre-Argo values. How were they determined?
you can find this info yourself by looking up the reference cited in the lower right hand side of the plot, NOAA/NESDIS/NODC Open Climate Laboratory
where the World Ocean Database (WOD) is described in detail, and includes the data sets and explanations of those sets, e.g.:
http://data.nodc.noaa.gov/woa/WOD/DOC/wod_intro.pdf
the data sources
for instance, the "Oceanographic Station Data" dataset:
another data set is from the Conductivity-Temperature-Depth (CTD) profiling instrument,
from 1961 through to the present...
to depths of 5400 m (roughtly 850,000 "casts")
Expendable Bathythermograph (XBT) 2 million profiles starting around 1966 to about 1200 m
Mechanical Bathythermograph (MBT) 2.5 million profiles from 1903 to 2004 to 225 m depth
the particular reference, Levitus, et al. 2012 can also be found in the publications area of the website:
http://data.nodc.noaa.gov/woa/PUBLICATIONS/grlheat12.pdf
which includes the substantial "Supplementary Information" that explains the manner in which the data is used, how the gridding is done and most importantly, the methods for calculating the variance.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 11:23am PT
|
once again, impeccable logic from The Chief
"someone was wrong once, therefore Climate Science is wrong!"
(I can't quite bring myself to putting it in all caps...)
obviously, someone able to convince themselves using logic like that has a feeble grip on logic, and on reality as a whole...
|
|
bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 11:25am PT
|
Given the Chief's life-long "officers and men" problem, I can't see how he can decide which elitist to believe.
But on the bright side, it does seem he must have one of the highest-functioning brains in northern Inyo County.
|
|
Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 11:55am PT
|
Waiting for you or anyone else here to show me actual physical evidence of any human produced component that is actually causing the current warming.
I don't care to wade into this cesspool too deeply, but WTF are you asking for?
All you need to know is that:
1) Greenhouse gasses including CO2 contribute to global warming.
and that:
2) Humans are pumping lots and lots of CO2 into the atmosphere.
Do you deny either (1) or (2) above are true?
Curt
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
|
...producing any shred or kind of actual HUMAN PRODUCED PHYSICAL EVIDENCE...
you wouldn't know what "evidence" is, (human produced or not)
and probably should try to calm down a little as your writing is getting more incoherent than usual.
What constitutes "evidence" for you The Chief?
and what do you think "scientific evidence" would be? (I know you're not a scientist, so it's possible your answer would be an honest "I don't know what constitutes scientific evidence").
|
|
Splater
climber
Grey Matter
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 01:41pm PT
|
>> Chief here you go...http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
>> Try to read it slowly. "There is no question that increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response."
The Chief replies:
"NO"
A clear and brief summary of denialism.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 01:46pm PT
|
You almost have to feel sorry for the Chief, his mind is not capable of processing information clearly.
Really funny to watch him move the goalpost to any place on the field.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
|
I said almost...vile little human he is.
Ed, he (chief) needs the OK from his commanding officer.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 02:18pm PT
|
Something more than...
you've answered what is not evidence, in your opinion, but you haven't answered what is evidence.
not unexpectedly, as you probably have no idea, or if you do, you'd fear that someone might actually produce it...
so instead of playing the game of of "I know it when I see it" why don't you try to think real hard and come up with a criteria for evidence.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 02:29pm PT
|
Chief wrote: You all despise GWB and all his croanies for getting us into the longest war in our nations history all based on ASSUMPTIONS and the SCIENTIFIC STATISTICS that were presented. That it was necessary to believe the "evidence" presented in order to go to war and save the world from terror etc.
Dude is stoned or drunk.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
|
Outstanding Post!!
Yes indeed!! Well, except for the evidence part.
The Chief, do you have evidence supporting what FredomFirst posted?
(I think we've discredited all of his/her four points.)
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2014 - 04:22pm PT
|
Ho boy.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 04:24pm PT
|
Chief wrote: BUT BOBDA, I know you do not believe the DOD, CIA, NSA or any other Gov't agency if they told you that we need to put Troops back into Iraq in order to keep this Nation secure from terrorists.
What a dumb ass.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 04:57pm PT
|
Chief wrote: This coming from BobDA the puppet boy that simply cuts and pastes bullshet propaganda then claims to know and understand the science behind.
Coming from the idiot who cuts and paste and has no understanding of it.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2014 - 04:58pm PT
|
Chief wrote: You all have a nice weekend. Don't BALLCUP one another too hard. Wouldn't want any more C02 to come outta your azzes than actually needs to.
Unlike the reach around that you, Rick S and Sketch give each other.
Idiot!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
The result of a modeling process
Let us know!