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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 12, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
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Agree with stopping the practice of growing water intensive crops in the desert (though supposedly the water rights, which are from the Colorado, are an old, complicated thicket of laws).
Agree with underground water storage. William Mullholland was a big advocate of this though, like DMT pointed out, absent regulations on use, it's not going to stay there long.
Agree with limiting foreign interests. For example, the Saudis have bought large tracts in Arizona and are sucking at the acquifers hard to grown hay that is sent back to their country. Again, it would be a challenge to limit their use since there were no such restrictions when they purchased the land.
Finally, get growers to be water smart. Lots of people advocate spending billions on water storage. Why not devote some of that toward the use of drip irrigation? Focus on efficient use of water, not on collecting more to use inefficiently. That is the primary means of irrigation in dry countries like Israel, where they use a fraction of the water we do for crops.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Aug 12, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
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That is why they left the San Fernando Valley as part of Los Angeles City. All those supposed cities like Tarzana and Northrige and Porter Ranch are just postal districts, not cities.
The water went there before it was part of the city.
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Coach37
Social climber
Philly
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Aug 12, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
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Bluering, here is a suggestion, take it for what it's worth:
The solar PV industry is exploding, and a technical/electrical/electronic skillset and background is very relevant and would put you way ahead of most people entering that field. Avg pay around $65k/yr for PV techs.
You could move your family to a place with much, much lower cost of living, in a locale more in tune with your political ideoloogy. You'd get to vary your time between outdoors and office/shop. An old friend back east, who working in a dying industry made that switch a few years ago. Says they are usually hiring, and growth projections for the industry are pretty good.
And the best part, they can't really outsource something that requires the work to occur right here, on-site.
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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Aug 12, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
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Regarding building new storage, it is much more cost effective to store water in aquifers than to build new surface water storage. Dams are expensive, the good dam sites are already taken, and you lose a lot to evaporation from lakes.
Analysis by a Stanford water think tank:
http://waterinthewest.stanford.edu/groundwater/recharge/
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Aug 12, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
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Cry me a river of almond milk, boys.
The huge moneymaker crops are exactly what the Resnicks et al. are planting and it's solely because they have the ironclad agreements with the state/feds about water FOR those "luxury foods" that people seem to want, based on ignorance of the water used.
We westerners and our diets are ruining our own farming practices and allowing robber barons to dictate to us. It's not right, it will take a miracle to undo, and this will never, never end.
When was the last time I used almond paste for a goddam thing? Never!
I don't buy packs of nuts at the counter of quickie marts, mom & pops, or at any kind of premium price. Shopping for the cheaper price at Grocery Outlet is a luxury, for that matter. But it's their money to spend.
I just hope they enjoy their sparkling water from France.
Pistachios and almonds are still going strong here and there is a fairly-recently-planted almond orchard which I just noticed today at Santa Fe/Olive Ave and its intersection with Hwy 59. This is on land which nobody bothered to develop for new homes right on the edge of the city limits and has sat fallow for decades waiting for the right developer. Since the housing market fell, this became so unlikely that the owner decided to go ahead and invest in almonds or sold it to someone who did.
And this orchard is huge, too.
The water's there for the taking as an MID feeder runs right next to the land. It looks like a two-three year old orchard. I haven't ridden out that way on the bus until today. I was blown away. People are greedy, uncaring, and dishonest, and this is one big reason the water problems in California will never go away.
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Tim Bermingham
climber
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Aug 12, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
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stan gave me about 10 lbs. ...you want some?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 12, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
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Bluering, here is a suggestion, take it for what it's worth:
The solar PV industry is exploding, and a technical/electrical/electronic skillset and background is very relevant and would put you way ahead of most people entering that field. Avg pay around $65k/yr for PV techs.
You could move your family to a place with much, much lower cost of living, in a locale more in tune with your political ideoloogy. You'd get to vary your time between outdoors and office/shop. An old friend back east, who working in a dying industry made that switch a few years ago. Says they are usually hiring, and growth projections for the industry are pretty good.
And the best part, they can't really outsource something that requires the work to occur right here, on-site.
That very kind of you to throw that aspect at me. Really!. I'd do well in solar-electronics. It's a dynamic, weird field that I specialize in. Adapting to unusual circumstances.
Again, thanks!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Aug 12, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
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Hellyeah!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 12, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
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I can understand growing nuts, but rice? In this valley? It's capable of so much more with so much less water. From what I hear.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 12, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
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DMT is right, that the rational use of underground storage requires thoughful re-looking at water management.
And the comment about where would we get the water is also perceptive...however that is just as true for any reservoir that might be built, at great expense.
The difference is that reservoirs lose an amazing amount of water to evaporation, while underground storage does not.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Aug 13, 2016 - 11:32am PT
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Mouse -
Do you have more info on this-
Jeff Mathis, my BFF, could spend the rest of his life felling the dead trees on his 2+ acres. There is a state program that provides felling and hauling of dead trees if the parcels of various owners collectively total ten or more acres, he says.
The first I've heard of such a program and my summer community has 169 acres of private lots with thousands of dead pines right now.
Thanks
Rick
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Aug 13, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
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RickyD, should I come across anything, or hear of it from Jeff, I'll try to remember to let you in on it. Otay?
I saw this in the newstand on the tenth of August, a copy of the Mariposa Gazette.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 16, 2016 - 09:03pm PT
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Amid punishing drought, feds pessimistic for Lake Mead's future
LAS VEGAS -- Amid punishing drought, federal water managers are projecting - by a very narrow margin - that Lake Mead won't have enough water to make full deliveries to Nevada and Arizona in 2018.
Drought reveals historic sights under Lake Mead
A 24-month projection released Tuesday comes with the largest Colorado River reservoir 36 percent full.
So if we can't fill the ones we have, how will we fill any new ones????
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/amid-punishing-drought-feds-pessimistic-for-lake-meads-future/
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Aug 16, 2016 - 09:36pm PT
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You said a mouthful Dean.
I helped with a tree count a few weeks back where we counted dead pines within a private development of approximately 220 acres at the 5000 foot zone of the western Sierra. Called the Yellow Pine Zone - it is 75% pinus species with the rest a mix of incense cedar and black oak.
We concentrated on getting a tally of obvious beetle killed trees with inspections of any pine over 8 inches at DBH.
We estimated that of the approximately 9600-9700 various pine trees in the area 65% were obviously red and dead and another 18% showed yellowing of the canopy and/or heavy pitch tubing.
The sad part is that three years ago we did a massive FireWise purge of undergrowth and saplings to meet the thinning suggestions of the Forest Service. Now we are wishing we had those saplings back so at least some pine tree will still stand 20 years from now.
What all are wondering is what happens to an ecosystem when it loses 70-80% of it's tree biomass virtually at once? Could not help but notice the obvious falloff in number of chickarees and grey squirrels we would normally have seen. On the other hand - the woodpecker population is up big time!
In the end, our Forest Service Advisor tells us that this Beetle Plague will not end for another year and then only due to lack of food as they will have killed 80-90% of the pine forests in the Southern and Central Sierra.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 18, 2016 - 10:31am PT
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Ricky, you seem tuned into the issues of a healthy forest, but many are not. One of the biggest problems is what people consider "normal". For most of us, we have only lived in the time of fire protection, so we think of an overgrown forest as "normal", when it is actually very unhealthy. Trees compete for food and water, and when they are packed together, they are impared, and ripe for the beetles.
Suppression of fire has had a lot to do with this.
One of my favorite example of this is the following picture, comparing the same spot about 100 years apart. The first is before fire protection, and the second, after.
In the first, you can see long distances, in the second, you can't see 5 feet.
THE LEFT IS A NATURAL FOREST!!!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Aug 18, 2016 - 11:02am PT
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Malemute's post sort of answers the OP's question in a grim manner.
I'm glad as hell I stopped using a mechanical slave to get around back when I did.
My carbon footprint is so much less than it could have been.
There is a solution, and Ma Nature is working on it.
She's gonna reduce our numbers significantly whether we do anything or not.
We will just keep breeding and building infrastructure and dreaming of getting off the planet.
*sigh*
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Aug 18, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
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I wish we could send our rain your way. This has been the wettest sumer since 1928 in SW Alberta
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Aug 30, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
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Boy, that sure looks like there are going to be some massive forest fires in the not-to-distant future.
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Aug 30, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
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There have been some stories on the radio recently discussing the effect of hotter weather on fires. The theme was that the number of dead trees was not that important for fires. The main factor was simply hot weather. With hot enough weather, trees burn whether they are dead or alive. I thought that was interesting. I have driven around a tiny bit on the edges of the Rough Fire from last year. For the most part the trees are still standing. The fire just took their branches and left the trunks.
In one area up on the NF Kings there is a large stand of dead pine trees. The fire blackened a long narrow area into the dead stand, but left most of the stand untouched. Weird! I saw that about a month after the fire while a few areas were still smoldering.
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