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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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The enormous "warmist" industry only exists to extort huge amounts of money. Thankfully we have the small, mom and pop, good hearted oil industry that sacrifices all of their measly profits to stop them.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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two statements:
1) If one actually studies the history of weather over the last 2,000 years, you see massive storms, amazing heat, brutal cold waves, devastating droughts, terrible floods and disastrous hurricanes -- none caused by global warming.
this makes sense to me; we know that the planet has undergone significant, even catastrophic, changes in climate starting before humans were even a species
2) Its not hard at all to get temperatures cold enough for snow in a world experiencing global warming...There will still be colder than average winters in a world that is experiencing warming with plenty of opportunities for snow.
this seems awfully orwellian to me; first there was "global warming" caused by humans; then somebody notices that the planet isn't "warming" anymore and that most of the warming occured in the first half of the 20th century so the problem is renamed "climate change", which is rather all-encompassing...statement #2 cannot in any way be refuted because no matter what the weather anyplace in the world, the cause is "global warming"...doesn't this infallibility run contrary to the scientific method?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2011 - 12:15pm PT
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Great post Ed. Thx.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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well.... we are having record lows in Tucson today. So I'm finally convinced the global warming is nothing more than a hoax. What's next? Snow on the southern tip of India? I'll be there in a week and will report back!
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Ed,
What are your thoughts on the correlation between the rise in sunspot activity and the rise in global temperature?
I understand Dr. Mann did not make all the money shown on the list, but he has been kept employed by his theories on global warming, much like Al Gore is able to make so much money by doing speeches on the same theories.
Many "green" companies stand to make a lot of money through this man made global warming movement.
Are all scientists that discredit man made global warming cheats or liars?
Dr.F,
Most of the propaganda is "for" man made global warming so by that rational I would say you are the one buying the propaganda. Until recently,scientists that believed there is global warming, but it's main cause are not humans, were shunned by the scientific community.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdxaxJNs15s&feature=player_embedded
K-man,
Am I missing something here? Where did you get the info that Dr. Legates made this film. The credits say written and produced by Lars O. Mortensen.
Of the number of scientists shown on this film none are named Legates.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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no way Dr. F. what with all the cold weather there will be more ice on land thus draining the ocean of it's water. thus the folks that currently have ocean front property will lose it. they should sell soon.
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corniss chopper
climber
not my real name
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Dr F - suspect you are secretly hopeful that climate-change will cause the
death of a large number of humans due to the fact that our activity
increases CO2 in our atmosphere.
Fewer humans would please you because it means less CO2 and a return
to the perfect climate enjoyed on the Earth pre-Industrial civilization.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Nope. The ocean will drain. The Republican't Party even said so.
So there!
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Your hilarious Dr.F,
I guess Al Gore is a scientist now then. I guess everyone talking about man made global warming is a scientist. Most that are pushing the agenda aren't.If you would like I will compile a list of scientists that discredit the theory of man made global warmng.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming
Wow, that was hard, I can tell you really checked that out before you made that comment, but I'm the liar putting out misinformation huhh?
Are you going to seriously tell me that you can't find any scientists that are against the man made global warming theory. Are you going to lie now and tell me most of the propaganda is "against" the man made global warming theory. But I am somehow the one "spewing right wing propaganda"
I do read literature and do my own investigation, which is why I don't just believe what I'm being told by the mainstream media and am questioning the man made global warming theory. I question it because there are scientists out there who discredit it. If I find out these scientists are charlatans then obviously I would re-asses my thoughts.
How that hell can you claim that I just spew right wing propaganda when you are the talking mouth piece for the left, everything the left says you repeat and believe. That I know of,you never question anything that has to do with the left.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Dirt Claud, you can join the ranks of the most misinformed posters on ST,
CC, TGT, The Chief and other non-scientists posing as informed idiots.
So once again by that rational, only scientists and super smart mofos can have legitimate posts here on ST. You sound like the elitists you supposedly despise.
I'm not going to play the "my list is longer than yours" game. Seams pretty childish,I guess if the majority of scientists believe this, it must be true. No questions asked.
For someone who talks so much about respect for science I'm surprised you are so against scientists that have differing opinions, is there no room for questioning the science of a majority, I must believe what "most" scientists and people believe or I am an idiot? Where would science be if we all believed that way and didn't take into consideration differing opinions?
Back in the day people were burned at the stake for claiming the earth was not flat at a time when most people did believe the earth was flat. I guess they were wrong too because they didn't follow the church or popular opinion at the time.
Besides I don't mind being grouped with those guys, I don't personally know them but they seam pretty cool. I don't just judge who a person is because of their political ideology on ST. It's a shame that you dismiss someones whole character based on political opinions on a forum. I'm sure you know there is much more to a human being than his/her politics.
I know you would probably never want to rope up and do a climb with me based on the fact that you call me an idiot, but I wouldn't mind doing the same with you, I just wouldn't talk politics. I'm sure there is more to you than left wing ideology right?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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The Dr is all butt hurt because I shot down his solar powered car idea,
WITH SCIENCE!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2011 - 04:46pm PT
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K-man,
Am I missing something here? Where did you get the info that Dr. Legates made this film. The credits say written and produced by Lars O. Mortensen. Of the number of scientists shown on this film none are named Legates. -- dirt claud
dirt claud, you're losing credibility here. I never said Dr. Legates "made" the film. I said he was a leading protagonist in the film.
Review the film, Dr. Legates first appears at minute 1:43. Later, he is introduced at minute 2:54 and given screen credit soon thereafter.
dc, you go on to say "Many "green" companies stand to make a lot of money through this man made global warming movement."
Don't forget Bro, a lot of "green" companies will also make a lot of money due to the effects of peak oil. And that means jobs at home. Maybe you should invest.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Dr.F,
Why do you ask if I'm a scientist? I thought this had nothing to with science, but rather politics. I figured you should be asking if I'm a politician instead. What does it matter if I'm a scientist? I'm stating an opinion not telling you that I know all there is to know about GCC.
I'm simply stating the fact that there are a number of scientists out there who discredit the theory. Which no matter how you try to spin it is true. I believe I'm aloud to do that without being a scientist. It seams I may be be going for a a degree in Piss-off Dr.F-ology though.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Thanks Aleister I'll do that, Apparently you have made absolutely no mistakes in your spelling, ever. Give me a break. Guess I need to be an English major to have an opinion here as well.
K-man,
You claimed he was the main protagonist in the film, which he isn't, there are other scientists on the film besides him that give their views and are shown more often than Dr. Legates. How does this make me lose credibility? By your comments I assumed you were claiming he had a lot to do with the production or ideas of this film, If I misinterpreted, my mistake,I apologize.
I'm not even claiming GCC is not real at all, I'm just stating that the issue is confusing to me when there are scientists out there that do discount the theory of man made global warming, and for that I get labeled a terrorist to mother earth, how dare I have a differing opinion.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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I haven't contributed an original graph in a while, but here's one inspired by Claud's question about sunspots. You can make sunspots and temperature look correlated by cherry-picking your time intervals and smoothing technique, but real scientists have studied that (and other solar parameters) very closely. Solar variation cannot explain modern warming, if anything it should be cooling things down. The record global temperatures seen lately coincide with the quietest sun in a century.
Over 1880 to 2010 the sunspot number explains about three percent of the variance in annual mean temperature.
EDIT: updated with 2010 data.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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I gave up on listening to Dirt Claud on this one in the why are the dems wrong thread:
Has anyone here actually read the health care bill?
Here is a link to the PDF copy of the whole health care bill.
http://lc.org/media/9980/attachments/healthcare_overview_obama_072909.pdf
When you click on the link it first shows a PDF document summarizing the bill and it's key points. You can fact check by comparing what is stated, with the actual wording in the bill. which is accessed through a link on the first sheet of the PDF
If anyone out there is really interested in finding out what is in this thing I suggest you read it for yourself. I would rather read it myself and find out what is really going on then expecting left or right wing media to tell me.
I thought "great an impartial analysis", and is was a TOTAL right wing hit job. Lame.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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ok, so if I would have found a leftwing website with the pros of the health care bill and then stated that you could fact check it, that would have been ok. Would that have made me impartial?
Youre right, I chose that site because it explains the key points that conservatives feel are messed up about the bill. I explain in my post that you can fact check it and see how you interprit the key points when compared to the actuall wording in th bill. I was hoping someone on the other side would explain why they felt key points mentioned weren't valid. I was inviting a discussion as to how we all interpit the bill, left or right.
Instead you just assume that because I get the info from a rightwing site it's all invalid. Why not explain how these key points are invalid and prove it wrong then.
I myself am trying to fully grasp all that is in this bill and trying to find out what is really in it and how the wording is to be interpeted.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Ed,
I went back and read some of the previous posts as you suggested, as well as checked out some more articles online. I have a better idea of what you and Chiloe are saying about sunspots. thanks for clarifying.
Dr.F,
I don't doubt there is GCC change, my concern and skepticism is, how much of it can really be attributed to humans? As much as you insist that I must believe what you say or I am an idiot,I have a right to be skeptical, ask questions, and make up my own mind based on the facts provided from all sides.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2011 - 12:12pm PT
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To those with knowledge of why the Global Warming scenario promoted by Al Gore is a sham, there's someone who wants to hear from you!
ENVIRONMENT/TODAY: Global Warming Causing More Snow? Come Again? FoxNews.com
Deadline: Feb 01, 2011 11:00 PM EST
Former Vice President Al Gore told Bill O'Reilly that: "A rise in global temperature can create all sorts of havoc, ranging from hotter dry spells to colder winters, along with increasingly violent storms, flooding, forest fires and loss of endangered species." We need comments from someone who can point out the ridiculousness of his argument, even if you accept the somewhat-implausible argument. I've been assigned this story just now by Fox News in New York for the science and technology desk. I'm looking for comments. Please send comments via e-mail. Please send your name, title and company you represent. Please send comments by 10 p.m. CST. Contact: Gene Koprowski
Yes, FOX News is grasping at straws to continue their sham that Global Warming isn't happening and it certainly isn't caused by our use of fossil fuels.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Show me a fact that proves Man is not causing GCC, please, just show me one
It's not proof of anything but climate change has happened before when it is a know fact that mankind did not have enough power to cause it in any way. Statistically speaking, there has been a lot of climate change on earth not caused by man. This at least proves that it is possible for climate change to be natural and not man-made.
I don't think this is the case but it is clear that there is some non-zero probability that this climate change is not our doing.
Dave
P.S. Scientifically speaking, you can't prove "not" in any situation or in any experiment. It might be possible to show correlations between sun spots and global warming events in the past or even show that the amount of snow on the ground reflecting sunlight has a big effect on climate change. You can't ever prove that the current GCC is or is not man made because there is no control group in the experiment we call earth.
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