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Bob D'A

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 10, 2010 - 06:05pm PT
John wrote: He inherited an economy ripe for expansion and steady growth, and ruined it.

What world are you living in??

Inflation and unemployment were high under Nixon and Ford...of course they were republicans and that is ok!!
Jeremy Handren

climber
NV
Jun 10, 2010 - 06:08pm PT
Reaganomics wasn't so much a sham, just a deeply flawed experiment, whose aftermath has caused terrible damage in many areas of American life.....the gulf coast for example.

By the way...you yanks have no right to be telling BP that it can't pay its shareholders dividends.

If you can do that, then why can't just about every third world country on earth garnish the dividends of just about every US corporation.

Of course, maybe thats a good idea.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 10, 2010 - 06:17pm PT
Jeremy wrote: If you can do that, then why can't just about every third world country on earth garnish the dividends of just about every US corporation.

Touche...nice one.


Go to Central and South America to see real sh#t holes cause by our self righteous corporations. Exxon/Chevron in Ecuador is a good start.


You see Jeremy only when it happens on our land do we give a sh#t.

http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10002075/chevron-exxon-shell-sidestep-co2-long-term-liability-in-gorgon-deal/
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 10, 2010 - 06:54pm PT
Bob,

I was living in the United States, and making my living as an economic forecaster, while going to grad school then law school. I correctly predicted both the peak and the trough of the 1974-75 recession.

Yes, the inflation was high historically under Nixon, but nothing compared to what it became under Carter. The inappropriate fiscal policy from a radical Congress unrestrained by a Republican president made what happened inevitable, and, believe me, we in the forecasting business saw it coming.

While Carter's presidency was, on the whole, disastrous, even he wasn't wrong on everything. Paul Volcker and Alfred Kahn were two good appointments, and without them, the economic catastrophe the Democrats caused would have been far worse.

The current administration and congress (including some Republicans) could learn much from Volcker and Kahn -- and from FDR. Volcker -- to the Democrats' great dismay -- finally started reining in monetary expansion, and Kahn demonstrated the limits of regulation. The deregulation of trucks and airlines Kahn initiated have been an unambiguous benefit to the general public -- even if the well-to-do businessmen flying between small towns no longer have impoverished grandmothers flying from New York to Los Angeles to subsidize them.

And FDR understood that when the government spent money, it should get value for what it spends. The current administration and Congress have been buying votes (denominating it "stimulus"). What have we gotten for it? We have infrastructure in dire need of disrepair, but instead Congress decides to give seniors $250.00 to help buy drugs? Please!

I remember America in the Carter years and California in the Brown years well. Those two leaders had us believing that America's time was over, that we'd reached all our limits, that our best days were behind us. I read Brown's favorite, Shumacher's Small is Beuatiful. If that was really guiding Democratic policy, it's small wonder Americans were pessimistic. That book's only worthwhile use is as a sanding block (in paperback, anyway).

Sorry, Bob. I've been there, and I don't want to go back.

John
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 10, 2010 - 06:57pm PT
John...you are really funny.

John wrote: While Carter's presidency was, on the whole, disastrous, even he wasn't wrong on everything. Paul Volcker and Alfred Kahn were two good appointments, and without them, the economic catastrophe the Democrats caused would have been far worse.


Funny...Carter controlled government spending and lower the deficit left by Ford.

He was a better republican that most republican presidents before and after him.

Also...I agree about the early to mid 70's...I don't want to go back.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 10, 2010 - 07:07pm PT
Skip wrote: Bob ... you aren't.


Skip




Who asked you??


Skip wrote: EDIT: Wow, he added something.

Good for you Bob.


Your turn...we been waiting for a very long time.


TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 10, 2010 - 07:59pm PT
AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jun 10, 2010 - 11:41pm PT
For someone who takes such pride in the Dems alleged non use of smear tactics you sure know how to do it yourself.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 10, 2010 - 11:53pm PT
You have us at a disadvantage F

If we were so inclined to engage in such juvinile and misogynistic play




one would have to photo-shop udders on retired feminine Dems.,

apogee

climber
Jun 10, 2010 - 11:58pm PT
TGT, your wife is hot.


Or is that yo mama??????
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jun 10, 2010 - 11:59pm PT
Palin is a classic example of a problem a former Canadian prime minister warned us about: "Charisma without substance is a dangerous thing".

Michael Palin denies any relation to her.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jun 11, 2010 - 01:03am PT
I predict we will see quite a bit of good old smear tactics from Dems in the next election cycle. Many key Democrats are on the ropes. If you want to see some good old dirty politics from the blue side of the aisle keep an eye on Nevada where Reid is going to get beat like a drum, and the race for Boxer's seat. Could you believe her speech on the Senate floor today? She is a total dimwit, who is actually in office and has power, and you folks are focused on Palin?

Good grief.

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jun 11, 2010 - 02:08am PT
Ms. Fiorina was recorded today mocking Ms. Boxer's hairstyle, and criticizing her fellow Republican, Ms. Whitman. Weasels fighting in a hole, as Yeats said about politics.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/11/us/politics/11fiorina.html?hp
apogee

climber
Jun 11, 2010 - 02:08am PT
Anti-incumbent fever, huh?

Come November, there will be blood, huh?

Do you all realize that in Tuesday's primary, of the 84 incumbents who were on the docket, 82 of them were named again?

Hell, even Blanche Lincoln survived!

Don't get me wrong- I'm a strong supporter of term limits- but the FauxNews narrative of how the incumbents are gonna pay for all of their errors has been flushed down the shitt*r like last night's bad burrito.

Har-de-har-har.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jun 11, 2010 - 12:17pm PT
Well then Go Tea Baggers Go!
Dunk another one.


Why are the Republican Sheeple so frightened of Peace and Prosperity?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Arid-zona
Jun 11, 2010 - 12:17pm PT
TARP program turns a profit:


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703509404575300502253092016.html

The Treasury Department on Friday said the money repaid to taxpayers for government funds used to bail out U.S. companies has for the first time surpassed the amount of loans.

The Treasury, in its May report to Congress on the Troubled Asset Relief Program, said TARP repayments reached $194 billion, $4 billion more than the outstanding debt of $190 billion.

In a statement, the Treasury's assistant secretary for financial stability, Herb Allison, described this as a milestone and said it is "further evidence that TARP is achieving its intended objectives: stabilizing our financial system and laying the groundwork for economic recovery."

The benchmark was reached in May when the Treasury completed its sale of 1.5 billion shares of Citigroup Inc., "a transaction that provided gross proceeds of $6.18 billion to taxpayers," the Treasury said.



philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jun 11, 2010 - 12:21pm PT
Excellent post HDDJ.


Suck Tea Bags Repubs.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jun 11, 2010 - 12:42pm PT
I don't know what is so excellent about HD's post in the context of this thread. It's good news of course that tarp, which was signed into law by Bush, actually worked.

How about that stimulus money? Did we get any of that back? What's up with that?



(Or perhaps someone is confusing the two programs..)
apogee

climber
Jun 11, 2010 - 12:46pm PT
"It's good news of course that tarp, which was signed into law by Bush, actually worked."

So now you want Shrub to get credit for that? Of course, if that report had concluded that TARP was ineffective or disastrous, it would have been pinned on Obama.

You can't have it both ways. Then again, I suppose that's the way politics works.
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jun 11, 2010 - 12:59pm PT
Fiorina/Boxer is going to be an expensive and entertaining race to watch.

So true, fattrad. Every Boxer ad should end with these words from Carly Fiorina:
"Outsourcing is rightsourcing."
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