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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 29, 2011 - 01:15pm PT
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To reinterpret for the dumb f*#ks, that means it was hotter than 2005
Funny, but also sad you have to spell it out like that.
Not that they'll care...
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2011 - 01:19pm PT
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TGT, seems you forgot (or overlooked) the part about the Record Heat.
My prediction--it's going to be an interesting Summer.
Old Chinese curse: May You Live in interesting times.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 29, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
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Corniss is right!
Weather has nothing to do with climate change.
Mother of God ................
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jan 29, 2011 - 03:25pm PT
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DrDeeg, thanks for that very interesting post. If more energy is being absorbed than is being emitted back out into space, that extra energy has to do something, it has to raise temperatures.
That glacier article that Blahblah posted is interesting also. Seems that when glaciers are melting fast enough they don't slide as fast over the rocks. So when it is cold enough, they accumulate, don't melt much and slide very slowly. When it is warm enough, they melt enough to lubricate their bottoms and slide pretty fast. When it is even warmer, the melt water cuts channels in the bottom of the glacier, so they loose lubrication and don't slide quite as fast.
I really appreciate the personal reports, from Reilly, Dingus and others about how much glaciers have shrunk in the last 25 years or so. Change has so much more impact when you can see obvious signs. Weather here in Fresno is so changeable from year to year that it is impossible to make any long term judgments.
I don't think that present human institutions can prevent further climate change. There is too much human and infrastructure inertia. Meaning we will have to deal with the consequences if we can. I want to believe that a more scientific and truthful governing system is possible. I have a few ideas about how that might be possible, but most people that I talk to think that is just stupid. Maybe JElezarian's ideas about actual costs will bear fruit and be helpful in dealing with our climate problems.
Seems to me that there are a number of legitimate reasons why one can be skeptical of climate change or of its importance.
1) We all experience extremes of temperature from summer to winter, and from night to day. An average temperature shift of a few degrees feels insignificant.
There are many examples of small changes over a large area leading to catastrophic changes in a small area (tsunamis, tornadoes, etc.) But the emotional sense is that a change of a few degrees is no big deal.
2) I don't feel any change in climate. If I don't feel it, I don't need to worry about it.
I think this will be overcome if people are able to experience climate change in areas where it is more obvious. We can't take everybody to the north pole, but we can view satellite photos, view comparison photos of glaciers from past to now, view photos of lowlands that are expected to flood, etc. More and more we can compare real time records with historical records for many areas.
3) Climate change people are a bunch of scare mongers. They are like Jehovah's Witnesses that keep bugging me to repent. I don't want to repent and I think they are stupid! Lots of people have said the world is going to end and it has not ended yet.
4) Volcanoes and other natural phenomena have a far greater impact on climate than man could ever have.
Hard to believe or perceive that the cumulative effects of small, steady widespread actions could be bigger than the sudden dramatic effects of really big events.
5) I need to make a living, provide for myself and my family and hopefully have some fun as well. I don't want to give everything up and live back in the stone age. I would rather have a small weather change than give up modern technology.
These are some of the motivations that I can think of, all speculation of course, but based on what I hear people saying. Maybe the local deniers can clarify this if they feel like.
I don't like it if someone denigrates my motivations in believing what I do or for acting the ways I do. So I don't like denigrating the motivations of others. I know it is a effective method of winning arguments and elections, so my hesitation is probably stupid and weak. But it seems easy enough to ask people what their reasons are and with the right questions, come to some understanding.
Paul
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jan 31, 2011 - 01:07am PT
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A more complete review of the study of Karakorum glaciers is at:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110124162708.htm
Many Glaciers in the Karakorum region are covered and insulated with debris, pebbles and rocks shed by the mountains above them. These glaciers are much less effected by climate changes.
Bookhagen noted that glaciers in the Karakoram region of Northwestern Himalaya are mostly stagnating. However, glaciers in the Western, Central, and Eastern Himalaya are retreating, with the highest retreat rates -- approximately 8 meters per year -- in the Western Himalayan Mountains. The authors found that half of the studied glaciers in the Karakoram region are stable or advancing, whereas about two-thirds are in retreat elsewhere throughout High Asia. This is in contrast to the prevailing notion that all glaciers in the tropics are retreating.
"Retreating glaciers, and thus a reduction of seasonal water storage in this region, have a large impact on hundreds of millions of people living in the downstream section of these rivers," said Bookhagen. "The mitigation and adaptation strategies in the Himalaya Mountains thus need to take into account the spatial climatic and topographic variability. There is no regional solution, but only different local strategies to the future water shortage.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2011 - 05:38pm PT
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The Age of Stupid, a very well done flick on Global Warming.
Skeptics should have a look, even though they know in their hearts that science is for Liberals.
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corniss chopper
climber
not my real name
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Rain makers once were able to dupe small towns into paying them to beat drums, then shoot off small cannons to make it rain.
Warmist's are up to the same old trickery.
We're not falling for it and not giving you any money to continue the IPCC jet set partying - aka Climate Summits.
Building more nuke power plants would tell us you are at least serious about this subject. Else you're behaving like rain makers and will be treated
as such.
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dirtbag
climber
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Christ, what a dope.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2011 - 07:43pm PT
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Yes, global warming could mean more snow -- Chicago Tribune, February 14, 2010
But, contrary to popular belief, a robust snowfall does not mean global warming is a myth.
In fact, scientists have been warning for at least two decades that global warming could make snowstorms more severe. Snow has two simple ingredients: cold and moisture. Warmer air collects moisture like a sponge until it hits a patch of cold air. When temperatures dip below freezing, a lot of moisture creates a lot of snow.
A rise in global temperature can create all sorts of havoc, ranging from hotter dry spells to colder winters, along with increasingly violent storms, flooding, forest fires and loss of endangered species.
Remember, 2010 was the hottest year on record.
You can buck the science, but in the end the science always wins.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Holy sh#t CC STILL doesn't understand the difference between weather and climate. He's like one of those Japanese leftovers, dug in like ticks on some remote uninhabited island, still fighting WW2 in the 1970's.
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corniss chopper
climber
not my real name
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k-man - Nothing special about the weather these days. Global news allows us to see how chaotic the weather has always been (and always will be).
Warmist's offer their scam on the global net claiming they can stop
the weather extremes but say its gonna cost a lot.
Send them money or else is their threatening message.
Are you a mark or a man?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2011 - 09:01pm PT
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Nothing special about the weather these days.
I gotta wonder, do you even half-way believe the stuff you write? Nobody can be as foolish as you and still be able to log into a computer.
But then again, I've seen young children use computers, so I guess it can happen.
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corniss chopper
climber
not my real name
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k-man - Have you considered that with 7 billion people now scattered over the planet there's little chance that storms will not be passing over
some of them everyday?
No you didn't consider that.
Also did you fail to consider that this is the 1st time in human history
anyone can know the weather around the globe?
People w cameras plus violent weather make interesting news. Get used to it and stop being a mark.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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It's cold and snowy here tonight, more storms tomorrow, but hey that's the weather.
Years to decades and centuries, now that's climate. Here's the hockey stick of the week. this one from an article by Spielhagen et al. in a recent issue of Science (emphasis added).
"Enhanced Modern Heat Transfer to the Arctic by Warm Atlantic Water"
The Arctic is responding more rapidly to global warming than most other areas on our planet. Northward-flowing Atlantic Water is the major means of heat advection toward the Arctic and strongly affects the sea ice distribution. Records of its natural variability are critical for the understanding of feedback mechanisms and the future of the Arctic climate system, but continuous historical records reach back only ~150 years. Here, we present a multidecadal-scale record of ocean temperature variations during the past 2000 years, derived from marine sediments off Western Svalbard (79°N). We find that early–21st-century temperatures of Atlantic Water entering the Arctic Ocean are unprecedented over the past 2000 years and are presumably linked to the Arctic amplification of global warming.
(A) Fluxes of polar and subpolar planktic foraminifers (100- to 250-μm fraction). (B) Percentage of subpolar planktic foraminifers in the 100- to 250-μm fraction. (C) Summer temperatures at 50-m water depth (red) calculated by the SIMMAX Modern Analog Technique. Gray bars mark averages until 1835 CE and 1890 to 2007 CE. Blue line is the normalized Atlantic Water core temperature (AWCT) record (standard deviations) from the Arctic Ocean (1895 to 2002; 6-year averages) obtained from (21). (D) Summer temperatures (purple) calculated from Mg/Ca ratios in planktic foraminifers N. pachyderma (sinistral). Gray bars mark averages until 1835 CE and 1890 to 2007 CE. Blue line is the sea ice margin anomaly (11-year means, less ice is up) in the Barents Sea (BS) obtained from (5). Dashed lines mark less reliable data before 1850 CE. (E) Terrestrial Arctic [green, from (6)] and Northern Hemisphere [black, 25-year means, from (19)] temperature anomaly records with reference to the 980 to 1800 CE and 1961 to 1990 CE averages, respectively.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2011 - 11:42am PT
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simply, they don't want you to know:
WASHINGTON — In a sharp challenge to the Obama administration, House Republicans intend to unveil legislation Wednesday to ban the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gases under the Clean Air Act and expect to advance the bill quickly, officials disclosed Tuesday night.
The officials said the bill would nullify all of the steps the EPA has taken to date on the issue, including a threshold finding that greenhouse gases constitute a danger to the public health and welfare.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2011 - 03:23pm PT
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dirt claud,
I did a Google search on Dr. David Legates, the lead protagonist in the video you posted. Lots of stuff comes up, including this "Other affiliations" statement from Wikipedia:
"According to the News Journal, "the Union of Concerned Scientists published a study listing Legates among several scientists it described as 'familiar spokespeople from ExxonMobil-funded organizations' that have regularly taken stands or sponsored reports questioning the science behind climate change warnings."[9] Legates is a senior scientist of the Marshall Institute,[10] a research fellow with the Independent Institute,[11] and an adjunct scholar of the Competitive Enterprise Institute,[12] all of which have received funding from ExxonMobil."
(My emphasis.)
Also this page: ExxonSecrets FACTSHEET: David R. Legates
So the film basically reports on what ExxonMobil wants you to see.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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K-man,
I can see your point, but check out how much dough Dr. Mann has made also.
Are you going to tell me he hasn't had an incentive to expose that global warming is being increased at a rapid rate by humans. Kind of interesting how Gore also cashed in on it, I'm sure you've read about the huge new home he bought. There are other scientists in this film that also debunk the theory as well and have some convincing facts. There are some good counterpoints in this film to the man made global warming phenomena, that to me seem legit.
I hope someone here actually watches this and can give some ideas on why they think this film is false. What do you think of the counter argument to the hockey stick graph proposed by M. Mann. I'm doing my best to study both sides of the issue so I can make an educated decision. If you look at who is pushing the global warming agenda they are not always the most trustworthy groups or people either.
Government grants provided to Dr. Mann and company.
2009-2013 Quantifying the influence of environmental temperature on transmission of vector-borne diseases, NSF-EF [Principal Investigator: M. Thomas; Co-Investigators: R.G. Crane, M.E. Mann, A. Read, T. Scott (Penn State Univ.)] $1,884,991
2009-2012 Toward Improved Projections of the Climate Response to Anthropogenic Forcing: Combining Paleoclimate Proxy and Instrumental Observations with an Earth System Model, NSF-ATM [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann; Co-Investigators: K. Keller (Penn State Univ.), A. Timmermann (Univ. of Hawaii)] $541,184
2008-2011 A Framework for Probabilistic Projections of Energy-Relevant Streamflow Indices, DOE [Principal Investigator: T. Wagener; Co-Investigators: M. Mann, R. Crane, K. Freeman (Penn State Univ.)] $330,000
2008-2009 AMS Industry/Government Graduate Fellowship (Anthony Sabbatelli), American Meteorological Society [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann (Penn State Univ.)] $23,000
2006-2009 Climate Change Collective Learning and Observatory Network in Ghana, USAID [Principal Investigator: P. Tschakert; Co-Investigators: M.E. Mann, W. Easterling (Penn State Univ.)] $759,928
2006-2009 Analysis and testing of proxy-based climate reconstructions, NSF-ATM [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann (Penn State Univ.)] $459,000
2006-2009 Constraining the Tropical Pacific’s Role in Low-Frequency Climate Change of the Last Millennium, NOAA-Climate Change Data & Detection (CCDD) Program [Principal Investigators: K. Cobb (Georgia Tech Univ.), N. Graham (Hydro. Res. Center), M.E. Mann (Penn State Univ.), Hoerling (NOAA Clim. Dyn. Center), Alexander (NOAA Clim. Dyn. Center)] PSU award (M.E. Mann): $68,065
2006-2007 Acquisition of high-performance computing cluster for the Penn State Earth System Science Center (ESSC), NSF-EAR [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann, Co-Investigators: R. Alley, M. Arthur, J. Evans, D. Pollard (Penn State Univ.)] $100,000
2003-2006 Decadal Variability in the Tropical Indo-Pacific: Integrating Paleo & Coupled Model Results, NOAA-Climate Change Data & Detection (CCDD) Program [Principal Investigators: M.E. Mann (U.Va), J. Cole (U. Arizona), V. Mehta (CRCES)] U.Va award (M.E. Mann): $102,000
2002-2005 Reconstruction and Analysis of Patterns of Climate Variability Over the Last One to Two Millennia, NOAA-Climate Change Data & Detection (CCDD) Program [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann, Co-Investigators: S. Rutherford, R.S. Bradley, M.K. Hughes] $315,000
2002-2005 Remote Observations of Ice Sheet Surface Temperature: Toward Multi-Proxy Reconstruction of Antarctic Climate Variability, NSF-Office of Polar Programs, Antarctic Oceans and Climate System [Principal Investigators: M.E. Mann (U. Va), E. Steig (U. Wash.), D. Weinbrenner (U. Wash)] U.Va award (M.E. Mann): $133,000
2002-2003 Paleoclimatic Reconstructions of the Arctic Oscillation, NOAA-Cooperative Institute for Arctic Research (CIFAR) Program [Principal Investigators: Rosanne D'Arrigo, Ed Cook (Lamont/Columbia); Co-Investigator: M.E. Mann] U.Va subcontract (M.E. Mann): $14,400
2002-2003 Global Multidecadal-to-Century-Scale Oscillations During the Last 1000 years, NOAA-Climate Change Data & Detection (CCDD) Program [Principal Investigator: Malcolm Hughes (Univ. of Arizona); Co-Investigators: M.E. Mann; J. Park (Yale University)] U.Va subcontract (M.E. Mann): $20,775
2001-2003 Resolving the Scale-wise Sensitivities in the Dynamical Coupling Between Climate and the Biosphere, University of Virginia-Fund for Excellence in Science and Technology (FEST) [Principal Investigator: J.D. Albertson; Co-Investigators: H. Epstein, M.E. Mann] U.Va internal award: $214,700
2001-2002 Advancing predictive models of marine sediment transport, Office of Naval Research [Principal Investigator: P. Wiberg (U.Va), Co-Investigator: M.E. Mann] $20,775
1999-2002 Multiproxy Climate Reconstruction: Extension in Space and Time, and Model/Data Intercomparison, NOAA-Earth Systems History [Principal Investigator: M.E. Mann (U.Va), Co-Investigators: R.S. Bradley, M.K. Hughes] $381,647
1998-2000 Validation of Decadal-to-Multi-century climate predictions, DOE [Principal Investigator: R.S. Bradley (U. Mass); Co-Investigators: H.F. Diaz, M.E. Mann]
1998-2000 The changing seasons? Detecting and understanding climatic change, NSF-Hydrological Science [Principal Investigator U. Lall (U. Utah); Co-investigators: M.E. Mann, B. Rajagopalan, M. Cane] $266,235K
1996-1999 Patterns of Organized Climatic Variability: Spatio-Temporal Analysis of Globally Distributed Climate Proxy Records and Long-term Model Integrations, NSF-Earth Systems History [Principal Investigator: R.S. Bradley (U. Mass); Co-Investigators: M.E. Mann, M.K. Hughes] $270,000
1996-1998 Investigation of Patterns of Organized Large-Scale Climatic Variability During the Last Millennium, DOE, Alexander Hollaender Postdoctoral Fellowship [M.E. Mann] $78,000
That’s almost $6 million you’ve paid for Mann’s models, reconstructions and tricks over the last 13 years.
The earth has a fever! And Michael Mann has 6,000,000 reasons to diagnose it.
Source: American Spectator via PlanetGore
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