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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 14, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
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I didn't know non-US citizens could be the "actual buyer" of a firearm.
And that form is ATF, not FBI.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jan 14, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
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http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-sheet
Looks like it's an ATF thing, but FBI does the actual background checks. Not surprising in that FBI is well-funded and has a lot of people power. ATF is way smaller and not as well funded. Joint effort and I'm glad to see it as it's more efficient that having the ATF create a big data effort like is needed.
Interesting stuff.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 14, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
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Robb said:
"What is the number one "cause" of handgun death in America?"
Hey Norton I'll bite. I'm guessing suicide.
PS: How are you doing these days? Did you ever check into a TENS unit?
Hope you're doing well,
Robb
BINGO! Robb gets it, SUICIDE is the number one cause of handgun death in the USA.
Not "murder", not personal defense, not illegal gangs, SUICIDE
and Robb, thanks for asking, yeah I have used the TENS unit for quite a spell and yes it does block the pain going to the brain. Recently I had another round of cortisone steroid stuff injected in my lower spine, about a month ago, and although it has stopped the worst of the nerve pain a large amount of it still remains. My situation is degenerative and will slowly keep getting worse so surgery is likely in my future, and if so it would be the second spinal surgery for me.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 14, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
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Thanks Ron, seriously this sh#t has been going on for over 20 years now.
I hope that someday you can live somewhere else.
I live in New Mexico, the largest Hispanic percentage population in the country, and we don't have anywhere the illegals and gang problems you have there in Nevada.
Hope you get the hell out of that sh#t hole you live in someday!
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 14, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
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I assume your friend had a hunting license... or was some kind of South African official... or had the Attorney General approve his petition.
No person may sell or otherwise
dispose of any firearm or ammunition to
any person knowing or having reasonable
cause to believe that such person:
(5) Being an alien —
(i) Is illegally or unlawfully in the
United States; or
(ii) Except as provided in paragraph
(f) of this section, is a nonimmigrant
alien: Provided, That the provisions of
this paragraph (d)(5)(ii) do not apply to
any nonimmigrant alien if that alien is-
(A) **Admitted to the United States
for lawful hunting or sporting purposes
or is in possession of a hunting
license or permit lawfully issued
in the United States;**
(B) An official representative of a
foreign government who is either
accredited to the United States
Government or the Government's
mission to an international organization
having its headquarters in
the United States or en route to or
from another country to which that
alien is accredited. This exception
only applies if the firearm or ammunition
is shipped, transported,
possessed, or received in the representative's
official capacity;
(C) An official of a foreign government
or a distinguished foreign
visitor who has been so designated
by the Department of State. This
exception only applies if the firearm
or ammunition is shipped, transported,
possessed, or received in
the official's or visitor's official capacity,
except if the visitor is a private
individual who does not have
an official capacity; or
(D) A foreign law enforcement
officer of a friendly foreign government
entering the United States on
official law enforcement business,
Paragraph (f)
(f) Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(3), any
nonimmigrant alien may receive a waiver
from the prohibition contained in paragraph
(a)(5)(ii) of this section, if the Attorney
General approves a petition for the
waiver.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Jan 14, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
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I didn't know non-US citizens could be the "actual buyer" of a firearm. Very few legal rights apply only to citizens. Most, if not all the 9-11 hijackers could have legally purchased firearms, and for all we know, maybe did. They had after all, a constitutional right to protect themselves against tyranny and oppression...
Anyway, here's a little pertinent tidbit from my local newspaper:
http://www.pottsmerc.com/article/20130114/NEWS02/130119754/mushroom-house-owner-sentenced-for-pointing-gun-at-employees
Man threatens employees with a gun, apparently only a misdemeanor, and plea-bargains it down to a potential 30 days in prison... He is required to surrender or sell that gun, but this crime wouldn't even prevent him buying another...
Nice work your honor.
TE
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jan 14, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
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Not sure what you mean about DOJ.
The FBI, BJS and ATF are all bureaus in DOJ. At the time of this act, ATF was not, but following 9/11 it got moved to DOJ.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 14, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
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No person may sell or otherwise
dispose of any firearm or ammunition to
any person knowing or having reasonable
cause to believe that such person:
(5) Being an alien —
from BATFE site faq:
Q: May aliens legally in the United States buy firearms?
An alien legally in the U.S. may acquire firearms if he has a State of residence. An alien has a State of residence only if he is residing in that State and has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase. Examples of qualifying documentation to prove residency include: utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, and pay stubs from the purchaser’s place of employment, if such documents include residential addresses.
See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.
[18 U.S.C. 921, 922(b)(3), (d) and (g), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.99(a)]
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jan 14, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
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So, there are no Hispanics categories for crime data. I actually am shocked the FBI does not have this category. If I want to see Hispanic homicide stuff, I have to go to CDC. FBI doesn't have it.
There is a Hispanic (yes/no) category on the ATF form required for Brady background checks. The FBI does the actual background checks. Data are (in theory) destroyed in 20 days.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 14, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
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The Application for a Federal Firearm License clearly asks the Ethnicity and Race:
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Jan 14, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
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THE SCHOOL SHOOTING YOU HAVEN'T HEARD ABOUT
Very few people heard about the school shooting in gun-filled Wyoming that left three people dead late last year. Stick around, and you'll find out why.
Here’s what happened:
Chris Krumm, a troubled 25-year-old, traveled from Connecticut to Casper, Wyoming, to settle a score with his father, Jim Krumm, a popular junior college instructor. The motivation for his actions are unclear, but Chris Krumm appeared to be suffering from a mental illness.
On a Friday morning, November 30, Chris Krumm murdered his father’s female companion Heidi Arnold– also an instructor at the college -- and left her body in the street. He then drove to Casper College where his father Jim taught computer science in Room 325. Chris Krumm entered the room and -- in front of students -- shot his father in the head. Jim Krumm heroically wrestled his son to the floor before he died so the students could escape. Chris Krumm, like most of these cowards, committed suicide before police arrived.
It was a horrific incident, and it shook my hometown of Casper and the rest of our sparsely populated state to its core. Although Wyoming has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the U.S., it also has one of the lowest murder rates. The incident was unusual and shocking and heavily covered locally but not nationally. Where were Michael Bloomberg and Bob Costas and Piers Morgan and Barack Obama?
So why, in the tragic shadow of Sandy Hook, haven’t you heard of this school shooting?
Because Chris Krumm killed Heidi Arnold with a knife. He shot his father through the head with a compound bow and arrow at a range of four feet. And he used a knife to end his own miserable existence.
Now you know why you haven’t heard about it.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Jan 14, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
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There are those who....
Think there should be no restrictions on who owns a firearm
Everyone should carry one, just like the wild west days
Feels they should be able to use them when threatened
People who feel their assault rifle will guarantee their freedom against a tyrranical government.
Then there are those who....
Think there needs to be more restrictions on who can own a firearm
Who can carry them (strict here in CA for the most part)
Who feel any law abiding citizen should have the right to have a firearm in home for self defense.
Then there are those who think banning guns will stop crime.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 14, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
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dirt claud (a name I suspect reflects your intelligence level for reposting that crap), I heard about the WY murder when it happened. The reason it didn't make a lasting impression on most....
HE DIDN'T KILL 20 KIDS AND 6 ADULTS. NOR DID HE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO... BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE A FUKING GUN!
As tragic as that was, 3 dead ain't the same as 27 dead.
And AGAIN, the reason murders are so low in WY is because violent crime is so low, which is due ENTIRELY to the low population density.
michaeld, I assume you fall into this category, right?
Think there needs to be more restrictions on who can own a firearm
Who can carry them (strict here in CA for the most part)
Who feel any law abiding citizen should have the right to have a firearm in home for self defense.
If so, good, we are on the same page. If Obama tries to take your guns, I've got your back. On the other hand, if he makes it a bit more of a pain in the arse to purchase guns to help ensure only law abiding, responsible citizens own them, I'm counting on you rationally explain the legitimacy of his actions to the nut jobs you know who start freaking out.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jan 14, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
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'It'll start to bring gun deaths down to the levels of other countries, though.'
Like Mexico which has a lot of gun control and a lot of gun violence. ?Somehow, I can see Americans being as violent as they are before.
Recent example of a 17 year old who was planning on blowing up his school for example. Take the guns away form kids and they'll still role model other kids destructive behavior.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Jan 14, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
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"Although Wyoming has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the U.S., it also has one of the lowest murder rates."
JHedge says "Proving that gun ownership did nothing to prevent it the tragedy you cite."
I'm amazed you still find a way to turn this around. I think the point they are making is that if guns are so f*#kin bad when everyone has them than why does Wyoming have such a low murder rate. Isn't that what you guys are always beating your chests about, how this gun culture is creating all this craziness, and how if guns weren't so accessible this would not happen.
And yes your right the guns in Mexico come from the US. It's called Gun Runner.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Jan 14, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
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Hey Mechrist, go f*#k yourself and feel free to look me up when your in SD you f*#kin coward piece of sh#t.
I can't even tell when your serious and when your trolling, but whatever, I don't even know who the f*#k you are, so what does it matter.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 14, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
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Michael said:
I think the point they are making is that if guns are so f*#kin bad when everyone has them than why does Wyoming have such a low murder rate.
no Michael, we have already established from numerous reputable sources that "population density" is a huge factor is gun murder rates
and since Wyoming has a VERY low population density, absolutely it should have a low gun murder rate, and in fact it does
important: this correlation has very little to do with gun ownership rate as you seem to be trying to relate it too
example: The state with the HIGHEST rate of gun ownership and the least restrictive gun laws is Alaska, which also has the HIGHEST rate of gun deaths
example; the state with the MOST restrictive gun ownership laws is Massachusetts, which also has the LEAST number of gun deaths, per capita of course
makes sense when you take the time to think about it
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Jan 14, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
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Actually, I said that Norton. So I assume that post is directed at me.
Either way, I knew coming in here would just be like the political thread. Hell, I even told Mechrist to f*#k off and I have never had any issues with that guy. Whatever, time to step away from the keyboard and go climbing instead.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 14, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
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dirt claud, don't be an idiot... and settle down.
He clearly didn't go to Casper College to kill people just because it was a gun free zone. He went there to kill his dad. The thing you people fail to understand is, if he HAD gotten a hold of a gun, a lot more people would have likely died... with or without a classroom full of armed cowboys and cowgirls.
That is a sad case of mental illness resulting in 3 dead. It is NOT a case that supports the right wing gun nut bullshit rhetoric that "gun free zones" lead to more dead people.
Interesting hedge, that seems to paint the same picture as the UK data... lower population density = lower crime rate, yet where gun ownership is high there are more gun related deaths, despite the lower crime rate.
SHOCKING!
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