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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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YES!
Politicians DO accept money from lot of wealthy people.
In fact, there was an article just this past week that Mitt Romney, the leading Republican candidate for President, has raised MORE money from "wall street types" this election cycle than Obama.
Clearly, Wall Street is betting a Republican Administration will cut their taxes even more, and remove the transparency regulation that Obama has put into law.
Money always goes where it thinks will make it more money.
And the sun will come up tomorrow.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Obama is playing the same corrupt game as most federal politicians. We need broad election finance reform. But whenever we try it's "a freedom of speech" issue. B.S.
That's why OWS is a good thing. Exposing it as much as possible. Unfortunately as with any movement from the left the minority radical lefties are too visible and give the whole movement a bad name (happily exploited by right wing media), and they aren't organized enough to have a coherent simple message.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Yep, if you want to run for President, you have to raise at least 500 million some how.
In 2008 Obama raised almost 800 million, almost all of it from individuals giving online less than $100.
Personally, I would like to see ALL money removed from campaigns and "influence".
And we all know that is not going to happen.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Most OWS activities are happening in cities in the northern hemisphere, mostly north of 35 degrees. Which means that most will experience cold and rainy weather for the next few months, in some cases very cold. (Nobody seems to be lining up to occupy Saskatoon...) So most of the camps will dwindle if not vanish simply due to climate. And as they are expressing - however clumsily - ideals that have considerable resonance with the public, if anything are growing in support, and are causing few real problems, there's little to be gained for any politician or police chief forcibly evicting them.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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they aren't organized enough to have a coherent simple message. I think the overall message that "people are pissed at the 1% and their control of the economy and government" is coming across. That's about as simple a message as there is.
The solutions of course are complex.
It took the anti-Vietnam war protesters 8 years to get us out. Eight years of protests, marches, sit ins, draft counseling, draft avoidance, elections, Congressional Investigations (the Church Commission), 4 students deliberately shot and killed by the National Guard at Kent State (established by recent research). Nixon was elected in 1968 on the promise to end the war in Vietnam, which he kept 5 years later in 1973, largely because the protest movement continued.
Social change takes a long time and a lot of determination.
How long after the Supreme Court decided Brown vs. Board of Education did the Blacks have to suffer discrimination until the Civil Rights act? How many Freedom Riders, how many non-violent demonstrations, how many arrests of Martin Luther King?
speaking of Nixon and the 1%: By 1976, prosecutors had convicted 18 American corporations of contributing illegally to Nixon's campaign
And of course the most egregious case of the law NOT applying equally to all citizens was Ford's pardon of Nixon for the Watergate Break-in. Watergate was a criminal act, for political purposes, ordered by Nixon and carried out by his closest advisors. The only one never indicted was Nixon.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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skipt you are a coward. You post a bunch of B.S. and when called on it you conveniently disappear for a few pages of posts, come back and post more B.S.
You just reinforce all the negative stereotypes of conservatives. No solutions. No ideas. Just attacks and negativity.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Once a corp isn't profitable it LOSES money and dies and cannot produce the goods that ungrateful people like you take for granted! "GOODS"? Like Global Warming and a toxic environment?
So DipSkip how do you feel about and justify the oil industry raking in huge record profits while still receiving billions of dollars of subsidies of US taxpayer dollars. Isn't that unjustified Corporate Socialism?
Don't worry your wittle pea brain DipSquat I don't really expect you to actually answer. I expect you to come page in a page or two and lay another steaming coiler of a lie like Obama is a Kenyan Marxist Socialist Communist Space Alien reincarnation of Hitler.
Your ancestors are so embarrassed that their seed went so astray.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I keep hoping that FatTrad, or one of his fellow travelers, will inadvertently post that "greed is god".
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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LovesGasoline Ten questions is an awful overload for Blurring.
Try limiting it to two true or false questions at a time.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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OK, three questions
1: IS there a US Communist Party?
2: how many members does it have?
3: Does the 2nd Amendment give them the right to carry loaded weapons in church?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Sorry LG, I cannot tell one corn hole from another Dip & Blew seem almost like one AssHat to me.
I'll fix it.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Lovegasoline,
Blue Ring has also called me a Communist, among other things.
It doesn't bother me personally, he is just expressing a fear he must have of the dangers of Soviet Union style Socialism, and maybe confusing it with pure Communism.
Whatever
Anyway, you may want to post your questions to Blue on a couple different threads, or even start a new thread so he sees it and can answer to these Communism fears and questions.
Personally, I think if I met Blue and did not know him from here, I might like him.
He seems like a regular guy, wife and child, job he likes.
As always, it's either religion or politics that always seems to get between people.
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Some of the most educated well thought out people I have ever converses with, has been on this forum. And I ’am grateful for them, some of them I have climbed with over a thirty year time frame. By the same token. I have listened to a group who thinks that this is some kind of political forum. Which is cool, it’s a part of our lives, but don’t miss the point of the sport of climbing here on this forum. I was out of the country for a few years and was unable to participated in this forum. I can say it has changed a bit in that time. Less polotics and more climbing would be a good thing, I think. Don't you?
DT.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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My question #3 on the previous page was meant to be farcical and sarcastic. I cannot understand why people have to throw around such blatantly silly epithets. Hence my serious questions 1 and 2.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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"GOODS"? Like Global Warming and a toxic environment?
Philo, you're a dipsh#t. I wonder how many things you consume were produced by 'capitalists'???
LG, hold on, I'll answer you...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Bluering, I'm trying to understand your political taxonomy. Can you please answer the following so as to provide a better snapshot of your beliefs?
1) Who specifically are the commies on Supertopo?
2) Who on Supertopo is a member of the communist party?
3) What current USA elected government officials are communists?
4) Is President Obama a communist?
5) Is the USA banking industry comprised of communists?
6) Is C4 in Yosemite controlled by communists and/or communists sympathizers?
7) If someone disagrees with you, or if you take a dislike of their political views, is it because they are commies?
8) Is the Democratic Party communist?
9) Is TARP under G.W. Bush a communist plot to destroy free enterprise?
10) Was the USSR communist?
Edit: if you do not mind, a few more questions to help me get a clearer viewpoint:
11) Are liberals communist?
12) Is Lolli a communist?
13) Is democracy superior to communism?
14) If democracy is morally, socially, and economically superior to communism, then why did the the commies in Vietnam dominate and kick the USA's ass?
1 - You appear to be the only admitted one. Maybe Karl too.
2 - I dunno.
3 - Van Jones and Anita Dunn fo sho. I suspect Obama is too.
4 - If it walks like a duck...
5 - Possibly, but the higher levels.
6 - No. But commies may loiter there. Also known as dirtbags.
7 - Depends. Not usually.
8 - Clarify. There are some Dems that should call themselves commies.
9 - No. It was crony capitalism. Different.
10 - Yep. It started that way, then morphed into a benign socialism until it fell.
11 - No.
12 - No, a socialist bordering on a commie.
13 - Of course.
14 - Lack of will and utilization of our resources. Like Asscrapistan. Same thing.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Bluey
nice response. Clever mix of straight answers and fantasy. Unfortunately I can't tell which is which.
===
Current Communist nations, defined as one-party states with the party being Communist. North Korea, China, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam.
To quote fattrad out of context: Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid.
So:
N Korea is certifiably looney, has nuclear weapons and a 1.2 million man starving army; and therefore dangerous. Especially to South Korea and Japan. China, for their own reasons, attempt to keep them on a leash. No successful country wants an armed and wacko neighbor. China is always playing off their interests between N Korea, Japan, South Korea and us. N Korea has delivered missile technology to Iran, Pakistan and Egypt. Does that make these countries "communist"?
Here's how afraid Shrub/Cheney/Rice were of N Korea: On October 11, 2008, the United States removed North Korea from its list of states that sponsor terrorism.[
China is balancing Communism with Capitalism to the best of their abilities. Beating the snot out of Tibet for which I will never forgive them. Our Capitalists are trading with China as fast as they can. So you can blame much of China's growth and power on Target, WalMart, Costco, GM (China is now GM's largest car buyer) and those who buy the Chinese goods, like you and me.
Cuba: Hasn't got a pot to piss in. Strangled by our sanctions which have distorted whatever economic success or failure they would have had on their own. Our Cuba policy is held hostage to the ex-patriot Cuban wackos in Florida. The same ones who convinced JFK to try the Bay of Pigs. The Soviet Union abandoned Cuba just before imploding itself.
Laos: Hasn't got a pot to piss in and are irrelevant to anyone but Vietnam and N Korea.
and Vietnam: another robust supplier of consumer goods to the US and the rest of the eager Capitalist consumer societies.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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can't speak for skippy.
Bluey climbs, fairly frequently.
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