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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2010 - 03:16am PT
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If Apollo 20 did indeed launch from Vandenburg Launch Pad 6, it is surrounded by coastal foothills and can not be seen from the nearest town Lompoc. It was supposedly launched at night (both Apollo 19 and 20), under the cover of darkness.
Vandenburg AFB is fairly large. Plenty of cover. The MOL project already prepped Launch Pad 6, prior to 1976. In the book, Riding Rockets, Mike Mullane talked in detail about Vandenburg and how they had redone Launch pad 6 for the Space Shuttle. Even set-up the shuttle and images were taken of it standing on launch ready to launch. It was pretty much finished. It was to launch the shuttle into Polar Orbit for classified USAF missions. But the shuttle disaster cancelled it from launching from California.
The point is you can launch massive rockets from Vandenburg and as Rokjox has indicated many a large rocket launching satellites and other classified launches into polar orbit have taken place. Vandenburg even now is out of the way enough for many a launch to go unnoticed.
You are being dishonest to say we know about every launch out of Vandenburg. Many go unnoticed. All are detectable, but doesn't mean anyone outside of those launchs are paying attention.
Remember, the USSR was supposedly involved with Apollo 20, so if true, they weren't gonna squawk about a Saturn V launching from Vandenburg.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/facility/vafb-over.htm
compare the following images with those from supposively of Apollo 20.
Apollo 11:
This is Apollo 12:
This mission? Not sure which one this is:
Looks very much the same but then again different. Then again it is a different mission. Same spacesuits for this phase of the ingress process though. And same helmets.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 13, 2010 - 03:25am PT
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No Vandenberg launches of any kind go unnoticed. And in particular, when you launch a Saturn, they didn't stay behind hills or hedgerows for long. Again, there is no way to do a stealth launch of any kind from Vandenberg, especially not a Saturn, shuttle, or any other heavy lift vehicle. It's ridiculous to keep saying it, Klimmer - saying it won't make it true. It's like saying there were stealth above ground nuke tests at the Nevada test site that the folks in Las Vegas somehow missed.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Oct 13, 2010 - 03:29am PT
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This is what it looked like after several hours on the hike out (artist's depiction--to dark to take photos).
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Oct 13, 2010 - 03:33am PT
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Oh now I understand
Cheers
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Oct 13, 2010 - 03:34am PT
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It really looked more like this. There was no moon. But those other pics are more interesting:
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
I've lost track...
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Oct 13, 2010 - 03:39am PT
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a night launch from Vandenberg 'under cover of darkness' would hardly be a cover. it would light up much of southern california.
i don't want to join the rabble mocking you. i am interested and there may well be some substance within this. but i am pretty skeptical. it's just too big an enterprise to conceal practically and smells like mis-direction to me. if that is the case then we can ask what we are being mis-directed about?
i'm not saying impossible, just highly unlikely; particularly considering the availability of practical alternatives. if the russians are involved, then why not a proton launch vehicle from kazakstan?
i think it not unlikely that the usaf has launched manned missions secretly. but it's more likely to be something like an x-20 dyna-soar on an atlas or delta. their big shrouds could accommodate all sorts of vehicles.
also lots of imagery of the backside of the moon comes from the russians. if they knew about big equipment back there, it would probably be for sale on ebay or craig's list
if you have a spare $100M, then space adventures inc can supposedly provide you a soyuz trip around the moon to see for yourself
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Oct 13, 2010 - 03:44am PT
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smells like mis-direction to me. if that is the case then we can ask what we are being mis-directed about?
You'll have to ask Klimmer that since he is the one doing the mis-directing here.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Oct 13, 2010 - 03:47am PT
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gc wtf are you talking about? get some control.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
I've lost track...
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Oct 13, 2010 - 03:53am PT
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the advertised trip involves their usual soyuz launch to station for a two week stay. then a second soyuz sends up an earth departure stage. your soyuz capsule leaves station for rendezvous with the eds. the eds burn sends you off to the moon for an Apollo 8 style loop around and earth return for a screaming re-entry at 24,500 mph. that should be pretty interesting considering that a standard soyuz return from station at 17,000 mph is a seriously rough ride at about 9.5 g. if you do a skipping re-entry and miss by a little bit, you'll be off on your way as a solar orbit casket. not to mention the soyuz habit of landing far from where it was intended.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 13, 2010 - 04:01am PT
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A Vandenberg night launch of an Atlas rocket - copped from a ufo site no less. Yeah, you could hide one of these babies alright.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 13, 2010 - 04:13am PT
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The point is there were no 'secret' Saturn launches from Vandenberg or anywhere else because you can't launch one secretly. If a Saturn launched people would have known about it immediately regardless of the mission. That means Apollo 20 never happened because the launch never happened.
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Oct 13, 2010 - 04:21am PT
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Tom, I meant Linda's opinion, an unverifiable speculation about the ET equation. I know she is superb with presenting great evidence, but she must have come to some personal conclusions by now that are unpublished. Perhaps she might share them with you, and then second hand them to us.
Diego Garcia yes, but a Russian launch even more probable. The amount of publicity Apollo 20 gets almost cries out disinformation, why only footage from inside the lunar module, the prize would be closeups of the "Ark". Creating the phony Apollo thesis would be a great cover for the entire operation being russian in origin.
What's not along the same line is things we observe that don't fit our knowledge or anything we know how to do.
Ironically these observations are potentially the golden fleeces of physics, anti gravity, evidence of phasing in and out of higher dimensions. I don't understand why the mockery of such observations. I really wish I could get a physicist to look at some of my night vision footage taken whilst in close quarters with Sasquatch. I am convinced bigfoot is partially a physics problem, and would reveal many things physicists are currently theorizing about, plus more.
I knew a woman whom was a contractor at the underground base in Hawaii. A very deep underground trip to the control room where the computers were. She described a large area at the surface, just below ground level, covered with camo netting. What intrigued her most there was an array of tubes with colored lights blinking skywards. It sounded to me like optical communications systems pointed directly at a geostationary sattelite and then relayed to the mainland in the same fashion. Simple but very secure.
I still have a copy of the northrop? video of a B2 bomber in flight, showing the engines turning bright orange, kinda matches what I've read about dumping ions into them to achieve anti gravity lift or propulsion. The video is now impossible to find on the internet anywhere last i looked.
I have also done some reading on plasma cosmology, pretty damm interesting sh#t regarding planet formation, accretion disc theory is kind of a stretch for me, works for asteroids but come on, gas giants ? nope.
Existence of a 2nd orbiting space station military in nature, is that probable ?
Whew kinda broad spectrum post ...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 13, 2010 - 04:37am PT
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Now a Russian heavy lift launch in that era, while not secret in any respect, could have been kept quieter to the broad public. But then it wouldn't have been an Apollo mission because there was no Saturn infrastructure in place fly such an Apollo mission. And if any such mission included a capsule and lander that left Earth orbit you'd be reading about it on wiki.
But anti-gravity - we're not revisiting that one again are we? There are no human anti-gravity technologies. If there were, we wouldn't be talking about Saturn and other heavy lift launches. There's certainly nothing anti-gravity about any aspect of a B2.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2010 - 10:00am PT
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Why am I the only one to have read the book, Apollo 20: The Disclosure, by Luca Scantamburlo? I posted that ages ago. The entire story is there including all the interviews.
Some of this info was posted to the web by retiredafb and then pulled off quickly.
It wasn't a problem of being seen. If it occured from Vandenburg, and I'm willing to admit that it could be made up, he states in the interview with Luca, that it was unmarked and at a certain distance you wouldn't be able to tell it was a Saturn V from the Vandenburg AFB. The launch was at night in July of 1976. The region was not heavily populated. It would have been seen by someone no doubt, but if it is true that at a certain distance away you wouldn't have been able to tell the differnece between it and another rocket that they launched often and commonly from Vandenburg, then what? What would you be able to say?
"Hey, what launched last night at the Base?"
"Oh some classified USAF mission. Another DoD or NSA satellite placed into orbit. Classified."
What could you say? This happens at Vandenburg now many, many times. You have no clue what was launched only what they tell you.
I sure wish someone else had read the book. I know it isn't all true. It is disinfo mixed with possible incredible truth. What is real and what isn't?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Oct 13, 2010 - 10:19am PT
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sounds like linda is far too busy with things she didn't want to get into to talk to me.
funny things happen to journalists who really journalize. chris bolleyn, making far too many waves, got fired by his newspaper, beat up by suburban chicago police trespassing into his own yard, then wound up in estonia with his whole family under some strange form of house arrest. you don't hear peep from him any more. i'd check on linda regularly, tom, and in person.
so GC would have us think he climbed clyde minaret. i wouldn't trust what you dig up on a forum search. with his hacking skills it ought to be a piece of cake to put a time stamp on something like that. nice touch, though--climb clyde, hike out, drive back to l.a., all in one easy day. almost makes him sound like a real climber ... named peter croft.
klim's right about one thing. all you have to do is classify it. it becomes as secure as a paycheck with benefits.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 13, 2010 - 12:19pm PT
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Apage satanas!
(Hamie, what's the plural form of "satanas"? There's more than one here.)
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
I've lost track...
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Oct 13, 2010 - 12:24pm PT
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Well, you see I kind of like my cozy little world where some of my neighbors spend their time wondering about when the messiah will return, and others worry about who will make the superbowl, and others are worried about resolving inconsistencies between quantum mechanics and relativity and dark matter and energy and string theory. And my hotshot (or not) friends on taco feel safe ridiculing anyone who nibbles at the edges of what they consider to be ‘reality’. And I worry about finishing the repairs to my roof before the rains come, and still fit in my next trip to see Layton; and wonder about some girl who is blowing away my wildest fantasies as to what is possible playing in the mountains.
I think one of the most amazing things about our ‘society’ is that there are so many people that have a firm grasp on what they consider to be ‘reality’; particularly when you look at all the incredible inconsistencies between people’s belief systems. I also consider it incredible, considering the number of nukes on the planet and the number of fanatic idiots on the planet; that we haven’t had more nuclear events. I find it a rather ordinary consequence of a barbaric society that people show each other so little respect, particularly when discussing alternative views on the nature of the world.
Anyway I promised to be straight with you about what I know; and the wild idiot hunters on the taco already suspect I am an even wilder idiot than is immediately obvious. So here goes on what Linda told me yesterday (the latest update on a lifelong research trail by her):
Linda believes that government insiders are madly withholding their knowledge for fear of upsetting everything that people think they know about ourselves and religions and the sciences; thereby collapsing what little structure is still holding our society together; and their tenuous hold on control of it. The stock market is already upside down over the greed of the kleptocrats. So just imagine how this news will affect confidence in the monetary system. However she also believes that our best chance for survival as a species consists of open revelations and honesty about what is known and working together to fix the overwhelming problems on the planet.
Part of the problem is that these government insiders have built such a network of lies and secrecy over the past 6o years that nobody believes much of anything they say to us anymore. So if they make an attempt at honest revelation on subjects that they have been pushing to be wild speculation; it will just release societal meltdown. That’s why you see instead so many heavily funded SiFi shows.
Linda believes that humans are genetically engineered experiments by entities that have been managing our development for longer than any recorded history. They are not ‘aliens’. These entities are perhaps on the order of a million years ahead of us in their development. She believes we have about as much influence on them as the lab animals in the secret high-tech Stanford dungeon have on the human medical research community. She believes our scientific and technical development progress is based upon little teasers that get dropped in the lap of some of our ‘geniuses’ (I’ve had NASA ‘geniuses’ reveal this to me). One of the results of this force-feeding is that we completely misunderstand some of what we consider to be our own knowledge of the sciences. Linda believes that part of the chaos in our society is created by the fact that not one, but several competing groups are involved: primarily the Nordics, the Little Greys, and the Reptilians. Linda believes that it is trivial for them to take on human form at will, so it is basically impossible to know when you are dealing directly with them. Linda believes that the Nazis are inspired by a Nordics enterprise to create a tall blond super race. And the Nordics are possibly the more sympathetic towards humans out of the three. Basically these creatures have about as much concern for the human race as our medical researchers have for big batches of lab rats. And we have about as much chance of confronting them militarily.
If some of you actually care to do your homework, you will find a huge amount of literature out there where people have researched and published pieces of this puzzle. These taco threads have only tugged on a few loose strings so far...
There! Did I provide enough fodder for the idiot hunters??
Now, back to repairing my roof…
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 13, 2010 - 12:29pm PT
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I also believe Graniteclimber is a member of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Oct 13, 2010 - 12:32pm PT
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wow, good to know someone is on top of all this. Can't believe some of these ST yo-yos ever questioned Linda's credentials.
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