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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Right bookworn...you are a major tool.
Here are a few specific family-oriented changes in the legislation:
**Kids with health problems. Healthcare reform legislation prohibits insurers from excluding from coverage children with pre-existing health conditions. This provision takes effect immediately upon the bill becoming law.
The bill would also prohibit insurers from excluding adults with pre-existing conditions, but not until 2014.
Older children and parental insurance. Dependent children up to age 26 will be able to stay on their parents' family policy, after President Obama signs the bill. (There’s no special regulation as to what this will cost, however.) Currently, states regulate the age at which children are kicked off their parents' insurance policies. Generally, it's around 18 years old.
Children's health insurance program. Kids' eligibility for the popular CHIP (Children's Health Insurance Program), which helps lower-income families, must be maintained, under the bill. States, even if hard-pressed by budget shortfalls, will not be able to cut children from the program until 2019.
Wellness program. Under bill language, "qualified health plans" will have to provide – with no cost-sharing – immunizations and other preventive health services for infants, children, and adolescents. This provision takes effect six months after the bill becomes law.**
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Bookie...so when are the red states going to stop taking money from the blue states?
Fourth Branch comments:
There is a very strong correlation, then, between a state voting for Republicans and receiving more in federal spending than its residents pay to the federal government in taxes (the rust belt and Texas being notable exceptions). In essence, those in blue states are subsidizing those in red states.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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--APIECE
Now that made me laugh.
The rest made me cry.
Dave
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Bob,
I remain a conservative because I believe that their policies inherently do more for poor people in the long run than do the policies of those on the left. I say this because conservative policies have as their base a belief that personal prosperity derives from one's decisions and effort. People who believe that tend to put forth more effort in self-improvement, and work harder.
The policies of the left have at their core a belief in a zero-sum economy, i.e. the only way you get more is to take it away from someone else. People who believe that don't spend the same effor on self improvement or personal industry generally, and more time coveting what others have and plotting how to take some of it.
Mind you, I'm not saying that all people on the right believe and behave in the way I've described, nor do I believe that all (or even most) on the left believe in what I consider the foundation core of their prescriptions.
For effective policy, we need a mix of the solutions proposed by both views. We as a society owe it to those less fortunate to ameliorate their situation, both in immediate succor, and in longer-range help.
If all we do is redistribute, we provide disincentives for economic growth and greater prosperity, and make the recipients of our largess permantly dependent. If we offer no aid, we condemn them to generations of squalor (imagine, for example, what would happen if we did not provide education for all children. Those of the poorest parents would need to work rather than go to school so they could help support the family. When would they get a chance to better their lives?)
This leads to the real response to this whole thread: neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are always wrong on everything.
John
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Democrats:
You have the right to liberty, happiness, success, health care, food, housing, good grades, money, and just about anything else that someone else can give you."
Republicans:
You have the right to the pursuit of happiness if you pursue it in the way we say is morally correct. You have no other rights."
The extremes are scary. I don't fear the moderates but I do fear both the far left and the far right.
Dave
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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John wrote: The policies of the left have at their core a belief in a zero-sum economy, i.e. the only way you get more is to take it away from someone else.
That is so funny.
The separation of wealth is because the rich (Wal-mart) are getting more and taking away (benefits/wages/OT/hours) from the poor.
The average America worker has loss wages over the last 30 years...the only upward spike was under Clinton.
Other progressives and I gladly paid our taxes...I want mine spend in different ways than you. Pretty simple.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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John wrote: If all we do is redistribute.
Nice catch word...republicans redistribute all the time and it is quite obvious to who and what.
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dirtbag
climber
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Vote Poizner for California Governor. It's just like voting for fattrad.
Which is a perfectly good reason to not vote for Poser.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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John...I really have nothing against you or your views...I just don't always agree with them.
I also think that we are not really that far apart in how we live our lives.
I'm kinda over the bickering and back and forth on this thread.
I have better things to do and really wish the best for your family and you.
Thanks for always keeping it on the up and your responses are respected...even if they are wrong. :-)
Hope we cross paths sometime.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Fat wrote: Let's see, Colin Powell's parents were janitors and Clarence Thomas's parents were share croppers, I think they took advantage of the opportunities that presented themselves.
Like civil rights.
Fat...Thomas's parents were share croppers...really?
Also...what if Colin Powell was gay...how far would he have made it in the military and which party is trying to end that discrimination?
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apogee
climber
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"The extremes are scary. I don't fear the moderates but I do fear both the far left and the far right."
You and me both, baby. Do you think this thread is comprised mainly of the extremes, or balanced with moderates? Are the 'extremists' in these polititard threads categorized as such because of their ideology, or their impassioned interest in politics?
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apogee
climber
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"The reason I am a lousy climber is because I am a Conservative?"
We've had this discussion before, Skip, and it is well-settled: the boldest, most impactful climbers in history have been liberals. Conservatives, by their very nature, are risk averse, and resistant to change. Two characteristics that don't lend themselves very well to innovative climbing.
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apogee
climber
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Yes, please, Skip...impeachment for what?
Can you name a single thing he's done that is anywhere near as illegal and contrary to the Constitution as initiating a war on false pretenses?
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apogee
climber
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Come on, skip....impeachment for what?
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apogee
climber
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I dunno, fattrad, at least Obama hasn't entered us into a war on false pretenses. Or covered up shady dealings with Iran. Or covered up a break-in at your political opponent's center.
I'd say he has a long way to go to sink to the level of recent Repub POTUS's.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Buchanan is generally agreed to be your worse president ever.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Torture, invasion of a sovereign country, 5,000 Americans dead, 100,000 Iraq's dead, millions injured or displaced...
Healthcare reform, Job reform, Bank reform, I think Obama is safe from impeachment.
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apogee
climber
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Nixon Resigns
And America's healing process began.
Gosh, I just can't think of anything that Obama has done so far that is anywhere close to the havoc wreaked by Nixon or Shrub.
Is this just another one of your tub_girl moments, Skip?
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apogee
climber
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Skip, you are changing the channel like you always do, when someone asks you to justify and support your rantings.
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