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TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 7, 2010 - 10:12pm PT
The new world order as envisioned by Obama in January 2009 was, I think, supposed to look something like the following: A social-democratic America would come to emulate the successful welfare states in the European Union. These twin Western communitarian powers would together usher in a new world order in which no one nation was to be seen as preeminent. All the old nasty ideas of the 20th century — military alliances, sovereign borders, independent international finance, nuclear arms, religious and cultural chauvinism — would fall by the wayside, as the West was reinvented as part of the solution rather the problem it had been in its days of colonialism, imperialism, and exploitation. A new green transnationalism would assume the place of that bad old order, a transnationalism run by elite, highly educated, and socially conscious technocrats — albeit themselves Western — supported by a progressive press more interested in effecting social change than in merely reporting the tawdry news.

Obama can still push that story, but more and more Americans disagree with his 21st-century vision. Stuck in the past, they instead believe that capitalism, not socialism, brings prosperity; that to reach a green future we need to survive for now in a carbon and nuclear present; that all, not some, laws must be enforced; that our country is different from others and needs to maintain the integrity of its borders; and that there are always going to be a few bad actors abroad who must be deterred rather than appeased.

We will hear all sorts of angry charges as these dreams die, but that will not mean they are not dead — even if we are lucky and they go out with a whimper rather than a bang.

©2010 Victor Davis Hanson



http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson060610.html
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 7, 2010 - 11:32pm PT
Gary wrote: So then your "Reagan Miracle" was because of the Democratic congress?

You silly boy...it doesn't work that way.



TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 7, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
No, you silly boy, it works this way.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704113504575264513748386610.html
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jun 7, 2010 - 11:36pm PT
I bet Victor Hanson doesn't know the price of a gallon of milk.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 7, 2010 - 11:41pm PT
TGT wrote: No, you silly boy, it works this way.


No...this way.


http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/study-bush-tax-cuts-cost-more-twice-m
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jun 7, 2010 - 11:41pm PT
I wonder what planet Victor David Hanson lives on. If he's purporting to be a serious commentator, his thesis is so absurd as to not be worth discussing. All but the most virulent right-wingers know that Obama is a moderate centrist.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jun 7, 2010 - 11:45pm PT
Cleaning the Augean stables was the fifth of the twelve labours of Hercules, in classical mythology. The stables housed the single greatest number of cattle in the country, and had never been cleaned before, let alone in a single day. Hercules did it by diverting two rivers to wash through the stables. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augeas

It is or used to be a fairly common metaphor, used particularly by politicians and political commentators, for obvious reasons. Abraham Lincoln and his gang would have been all over it.
WandaFuca

Social climber
From the gettin place
Jun 7, 2010 - 11:51pm PT
And TGT pastes another VDH ghost story.




Boy that Obama sure is sneaky. A year and a half and everything he's done has very convincingly seemed more center than left.

But VDH would have us be sure to trust his rhetoric and not be fooled by mere facts and evidence.

I suppose Obama will wait until the last months of his second term--maybe November 2016--and then BAM he will spring his green commie one-world islamo-fascist plot!


The Republicans have sold themselves to the far-right and the wacko tea-baggers just like they did with moral majority and the other christian wack-jobs before.

They have a problem, because they can't very well demonize Obama if all the evidence shows him as slightly left of center, willing to compromise and open to talking with anyone--how scary is that?

As usual the facts and evidence don't matter to Republicans, they just keep peddling this spooky right-wing bedtime story to keep the idiots like TGT fooled.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 8, 2010 - 12:00am PT
I bet Victor Hanson doesn't know the price of a gallon of milk.

LMAO

Only someone with no clue as to his background would make such an absurd statement.


Does your messiah BHO know what the price of milk is?


No teleprompters allowed here now.




I plan to be ready for the second crash next year. Unless the November election forestalls it.


TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 8, 2010 - 12:11am PT
The messiah has a plan for ending our petroleum dependence!

We are going back to whale oil!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/05/obama-backing-deal-lift-global-ban-commercial-whaling/
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jun 8, 2010 - 12:17am PT
So, how about we give another hearty Taco welcome to ... Dick Cheney. What do you say guys. You up for it?
Depends. What sort of weaponry are we allowed? Apart from our wicked humour, of course.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 8, 2010 - 01:47am PT
Skipt,

If you've had dinner there, you can't be that far from my neighborhood. Let me know if you're ever close to the Big Raisin. My wife grew up in Selma, and has known Victor and his wife since high school.

For those who don't know, Victor Davis Hanson knows farming because he is a farmer, in addition to being a historian. He is also, sad to say, a Democrat. His mother, Pauline Davis Hanson, was a justice on the Fifth District Court of Appeals, and a pioneer for women in the field of law.

John
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Jun 8, 2010 - 02:18am PT
Skip wrote

How do you explain Chernobyl?

Was the Soviet Union too much of a "private enterprise" environment for you to handle
?

A look at the list of oil disasters in history and the state of affairs near Chernobyl shows that accidents happen in every industry, even when we can't afford the cost of a mistake.

http://www.marinergroup.com/oil-spill-history.htm

From this, we should strenuously stay away from nukes and make a HUGE increase in our investments in energy that can't kill us with radiation or chemical poison.

Peace

Karl
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Jun 8, 2010 - 06:44am PT
and the award for conducting a university study that simply reveals the obvious goes to...






Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?
Self-identified liberals and Democrats do badly on questions of basic economics.
By DANIEL B. KLEIN

Who is better informed about the policy choices facing the country—liberals, conservatives or libertarians? According to a Zogby International survey that I write about in the May issue of Econ Journal Watch, the answer is unequivocal: The left flunks Econ 101.

Zogby researcher Zeljka Buturovic and I considered the 4,835 respondents' (all American adults) answers to eight survey questions about basic economics. We also asked the respondents about their political leanings: progressive/very liberal; liberal; moderate; conservative; very conservative; and libertarian.

Rather than focusing on whether respondents answered a question correctly, we instead looked at whether they answered incorrectly. A response was counted as incorrect only if it was flatly unenlightened.

Consider one of the economic propositions in the December 2008 poll: "Restrictions on housing development make housing less affordable." People were asked if they: 1) strongly agree; 2) somewhat agree; 3) somewhat disagree; 4) strongly disagree; 5) are not sure.

Basic economics acknowledges that whatever redeeming features a restriction may have, it increases the cost of production and exchange, making goods and services less affordable. There may be exceptions to the general case, but they would be atypical.

View Full Image

Associated Press

"Are You Smarter Than A 5th Grader?" TV show
Therefore, we counted as incorrect responses of "somewhat disagree" and "strongly disagree." This treatment gives leeway for those who think the question is ambiguous or half right and half wrong. They would likely answer "not sure," which we do not count as incorrect.

In this case, percentage of conservatives answering incorrectly was 22.3%, very conservatives 17.6% and libertarians 15.7%. But the percentage of progressive/very liberals answering incorrectly was 67.6% and liberals 60.1%. The pattern was not an anomaly.

The other questions were: 1) Mandatory licensing of professional services increases the prices of those services (unenlightened answer: disagree). 2) Overall, the standard of living is higher today than it was 30 years ago (unenlightened answer: disagree). 3) Rent control leads to housing shortages (unenlightened answer: disagree). 4) A company with the largest market share is a monopoly (unenlightened answer: agree). 5) Third World workers working for American companies overseas are being exploited (unenlightened answer: agree). 6) Free trade leads to unemployment (unenlightened answer: agree). 7) Minimum wage laws raise unemployment (unenlightened answer: disagree).

More on Politics
Primaries to Watch From Coast to Coast Candidates Target Rivals' Wall Street Ties Map: Congressional Contests Interactive: Battle for the Senate | House 2010 Governors Races How did the six ideological groups do overall? Here they are, best to worst, with an average number of incorrect responses from 0 to 8: Very conservative, 1.30; Libertarian, 1.38; Conservative, 1.67; Moderate, 3.67; Liberal, 4.69; Progressive/very liberal, 5.26.

Americans in the first three categories do reasonably well. But the left has trouble squaring economic thinking with their political psychology, morals and aesthetics.

To be sure, none of the eight questions specifically challenge the political sensibilities of conservatives and libertarians. Still, not all of the eight questions are tied directly to left-wing concerns about inequality and redistribution. In particular, the questions about mandatory licensing, the standard of living, the definition of monopoly, and free trade do not specifically challenge leftist sensibilities.

Yet on every question the left did much worse. On the monopoly question, the portion of progressive/very liberals answering incorrectly (31%) was more than twice that of conservatives (13%) and more than four times that of libertarians (7%). On the question about living standards, the portion of progressive/very liberals answering incorrectly (61%) was more than four times that of conservatives (13%) and almost three times that of libertarians (21%).

The survey also asked about party affiliation. Those responding Democratic averaged 4.59 incorrect answers. Republicans averaged 1.61 incorrect, and Libertarians 1.26 incorrect.

Adam Smith described political economy as "a branch of the science of a statesman or legislator." Governmental power joined with wrongheadedness is something terrible, but all too common. Realizing that many of our leaders and their constituents are economically unenlightened sheds light on the troubles that surround us.

Mr. Klein is a professor of economics at George Mason University. This op-ed is based on an article published in the May 2010 issue of the journal he edits, Econ Journal Watch, a project sponsored by the American Institute for Economic Research.

bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Jun 8, 2010 - 09:18am PT
and, in case, you want more proof that liberals don't understand basic economics:

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/67156


of course, one might blame this incompetence on a certain harvard grad with no executive experience, but why not "spread the wealth" around to all those deserving?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 8, 2010 - 09:51am PT
Bookworn...http://www.investopedia.com/articles/financial-theory/08/political-party-democrat-republican-stock-returns.asp
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 8, 2010 - 10:00am PT
Bookworn..." "Looking at what might normally be considered "moral issues," the January 2005 issue of The American Prospect reported some startling comparative statistics on human behavior in red states and blue.
In red states in 2001, there were 572,000 divorces; in blue states, only 340,000.
That same year, in the red states of Louisiana, Mississippi, and New Mexico, 46.3 percent of all births were to unwed mothers; in blue states, the average was 31.7 percent.

* The per capita rate of violent crime today in red states is 421 per 100,000; in blue states, it's 372 per 100,000.
* As of 2000, the five states with the highest rates of alcohol abuse were red states. The five states with the highest rates of alcohol abuse among twelve- to seventeen-year-olds were also red states.
* In 2002, the per capita rate of gonorrhea in red states was 140 per 100,000; in blue states, it was 99 per 100,000."

1. Of the 21 states with the highest Murder rates, all but four are "conservative" :
2. Of the states with the highest Suicide rates, All eight of the states with the highest Suicide rates are considered
"conservative, while all eight of the states with the lowest Suicide rates are "liberal"
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jun 8, 2010 - 10:01am PT
Bob,

"Facts are stupid things."
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 8, 2010 - 10:07am PT
Rush Limbaugh equals family values...fourth wife...26 years younger.


Hates gays but has a gay man play at his fourth wedding and pay the gay man a million dollars.
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Jun 8, 2010 - 10:28am PT
wait, wait, i'm not piling on...i actually found something that liberals are good at (and way better than republicans): screwing the poor


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38219.html

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